WEBVTT

f1feaaca-1593-4fc4-ba25-fa1d71b44601-0
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OK. If it's any point you can't
hear me um, or see the slide,

f1feaaca-1593-4fc4-ba25-fa1d71b44601-1
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just let me know.

ad8fe3bf-7a2f-4bc4-9068-1dc81ddd8073-0
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And thank you very much, Helena,
for the for the very kind

ad8fe3bf-7a2f-4bc4-9068-1dc81ddd8073-1
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introduction and for inviting me
to speak to you all. And thank

ad8fe3bf-7a2f-4bc4-9068-1dc81ddd8073-2
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you all for taking the time,
really.

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And to attend and as I
understand, some of you are in

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the UK, others are far away, um.
And so thank you very much for

00fc3615-8e71-4461-98b3-aff93b211626-2
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taking the time and my talk is
entitled Make making our country

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great again, which of course.

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Relates to a kind of very known
nationalistic populist slogan,

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making America great again, or
making Great Britain great

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again, and so forth.

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And, but I want to focus really
on the um, and here is the

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psychological aspect, as Helena
was saying, the libidinal,

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libidinal economy of
nationalism.

a8f3b4de-87f8-4a9f-800f-b9f66af66e4a-0
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And and or populism. And the top
day very much draws on several

a8f3b4de-87f8-4a9f-800f-b9f66af66e4a-1
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publications that have had in
the past several years. They're

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all listed in in the final slide
and if you want more

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information, please feel free to
e-mail me directly and one of

a8f3b4de-87f8-4a9f-800f-b9f66af66e4a-4
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them focuses on the Brexit vote.

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Which I will talk about today.
The other is, of course, the

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book I published.

285b1aa6-2411-4dd0-bbce-dd341f652d88-0
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By now, almost three years ago,
which offers psychological

285b1aa6-2411-4dd0-bbce-dd341f652d88-1
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genealogy of the ideal of the
nation and the state in

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political.

f859bccb-4aa5-4491-97c1-5828cd9a2c93-0
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A theory as well as contemporary
international relations theory.

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So the talk today will have
three main parts. I will start

34c8d2a0-7ff0-4fa9-97ba-c95646c76fb1-1
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with the puzzle, basically the
main questions that.

f885f08c-f89f-4187-9ff6-58ee1ce9522e-0
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Made me start working on this
several years ago. And the

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puzzle is of course focusing on
the repetitions, the

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recurrences, if you like, of
nationalism and populism. I will

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then move on to offer a very,
very short critical survey of

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the literature. There's just too
much out there to do justice to

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the richness of the literature
or or nationalism and populism.

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And finally, which is of course
the bulk of today's

f885f08c-f89f-4187-9ff6-58ee1ce9522e-7
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presentation, will be to offer a
certain psychological.

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Architecture where I focused on
three main machineries if you

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like, that explain the
repetitions of nationalism and

6d2675b5-336b-4b54-9f21-b8dcdf966d76-2
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populism and those are the
ontology of void fantasy and joy

6d2675b5-336b-4b54-9f21-b8dcdf966d76-3
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sounds badly. Translator's
enjoyment. I will talk about

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that later on.

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So let's start with the puzzle.
Basically, you know why? Why

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focus on nationalism and
populism? What's, what's the

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what is there more to say about
the the the subject of

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nationalism and and populism?

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So the starting point for many I
I think was, um, around the

ede7d18e-ce6e-4fec-a4fe-7499045fd2f3-1
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election of of Trump, but
already before that.

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The Brexit vote, and indeed the
rise of nationalist and populist

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sentiments.

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Across Europe, but and and the
United States, but beyond and

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with various forms of, UM, if
you like, resurgence of

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nationalism, whether it's in
India, the Philippines.

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Israel and elsewhere will Brazil
and hopefully changing now. And

e8a185bf-2690-48a4-a107-7dfdf4a3d3b6-1
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one of the things that I found
really fascinating is someone

e8a185bf-2690-48a4-a107-7dfdf4a3d3b6-2
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who has always been interested
in in in nationalism rather than

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populism as such.

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Is the.

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As I said at the beginning of
the repetitious isness or the

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recurrences of of nationalism,
and if you like to put it

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simply, how is it that once
again we have to deal with this

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new form of of sentiments and
then they look different, they

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may sound different to to, to
the history of nationalism and

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related phenomena of course,
extreme right, fascism and

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racism, Nazism and so forth. But
it's almost.

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Begging the question of how come
we are yet again at this, at

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this, um, sociopolitical and the
global political situation. And

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so the two key questions that
really.

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And let my research work.

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What is it in nationalism that
lends itself to all these

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permutations and repetitions to
its perpetuum mobile?

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And as I said, it is not as if
history is repeating itself, and

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I'm using the the in the title,
particularly of one of the of

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one of the papers I published.
When I say when I write

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repetitions, I do not mean that
history repeats itself, but

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nonetheless the kind of ways in
which ways in which nationalism

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and populism lend themselves to.

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Aligned with all kinds of other
forms of thinking, ideologies,

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practises and so forth in some
ways, even if you like

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contradictory ways. And yet they
nonetheless repeat and they

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appeal, and that's the the key
aspect of the puzzle. And so the

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second question is why are we in
quotation marks, continuously

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investing in it?

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Again, socially, politically,
globally.

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Despite all its failures and
indeed the darker side of

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nationalism, if we think about
the various form of exclusions,

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racisms and phobia, and of
course genocide. So again the

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two, the two main issues that
really bothered me, if you like,

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is how come we are once again at
this situation, even if.

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The current forms and
manifestations of nationalism

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differ to the to the past and
but also. What is it in

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nationalism? Why is there this
appeal to nationalism that seems

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to?

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Once again, and succeed not just
in, in, in, in, in voting, in,

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in, in elections and so forth,
but also in the kind of spread

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of virus discourses and
narratives again socially,

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politically and globally.

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So there is a lot out there on
nationalism and populism and too

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much to really.

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Do justice in in the sense of a
proper literature review, even

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if I were to to to write.

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A book now on just focusing on
the kind of various ways in

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which nationalism and populism
have been analysed, critiqued,

305e8baf-c58d-4eac-b1c9-2b618fddae28-2
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explained and so forth. And I
think when someone did a quick

305e8baf-c58d-4eac-b1c9-2b618fddae28-3
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analysis a couple of years ago
that if we just focus on the

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past.

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But our six years since 2016, we
probably have thousands of

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outputs out there. Chapters,
journal articles, books and so

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00:07:21.408 --> 00:07:21.780
forth.

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So these are just a few kind of
major titles that that came,

0922bb44-7f24-43b2-af5b-d66c872ca7d9-1
00:07:26.928 --> 00:07:31.047
some of them in recent years,
others are are a bit older of

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course and and one of the things
that I found interesting again.

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With that, with those two
questions, with that puzzle of

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the repetition, isness, the
repetitions of nationalism and

ba62d253-3388-47c9-b331-a860077fc615-2
00:07:44.281 --> 00:07:45.950
populism is that very few.

0c94be6a-bad6-440e-bc02-46581a199d8f-0
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Scholars have addressed the
questions the question of why

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nationalism? And why nationalism
yet again and again seems to to

0c94be6a-bad6-440e-bc02-46581a199d8f-2
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appeal in different ways in
different societies, in

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different political system
systems and so forth. And the

0c94be6a-bad6-440e-bc02-46581a199d8f-4
00:08:05.546 --> 00:08:08.570
second thing is the the ways in
which.

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Not just discourse, analytical,
but also psychological

96da3b0b-c23f-49bc-b58d-c0b6207ef246-1
00:08:13.324 --> 00:08:17.843
perspective or lens, one should
say, can offer insights that are

96da3b0b-c23f-49bc-b58d-c0b6207ef246-2
00:08:17.843 --> 00:08:22.015
perhaps missing in the more
political, theoretical analysis

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00:08:22.015 --> 00:08:26.257
of nationalism and populism and
its relationship with, with,

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00:08:26.257 --> 00:08:27.300
with democracy.

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And the ways in which
nationalism and populism.

8e3cdcb6-15f0-4a12-a7b2-6e919c227b1b-0
00:08:32.350 --> 00:08:36.740
Share similarities. As the title
of it will and Godwin clearly

8e3cdcb6-15f0-4a12-a7b2-6e919c227b1b-1
00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:40.781
depict, national populism has
been defined by some in the

8e3cdcb6-15f0-4a12-a7b2-6e919c227b1b-2
00:08:40.781 --> 00:08:41.200
field.

4d6ce8da-1f4f-4ea1-89a6-6808835c62b4-0
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And and and therefore I thought
there is a need to think

4d6ce8da-1f4f-4ea1-89a6-6808835c62b4-1
00:08:46.737 --> 00:08:51.264
theoretically and analytically
about the appeal in in

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00:08:51.264 --> 00:08:52.270
nationalism.

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00:08:53.350 --> 00:08:57.198
So again, I'm I'm not doing
justice to the complexity and

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00:08:57.198 --> 00:09:01.512
richness of the various studies
on nationalism and populism, and

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00:09:01.512 --> 00:09:05.493
indeed rich in the sense of
philosophical, theoretical, and

28bb98a9-ddab-4667-8a6e-87896bdf0a70-3
00:09:05.493 --> 00:09:09.210
methodological approaches. But I
think nonetheless the.

02f1d6cb-1c1d-4971-815c-32fec86af499-0
00:09:09.950 --> 00:09:13.506
The but now we have more
psychological analysis. But when

02f1d6cb-1c1d-4971-815c-32fec86af499-1
00:09:13.506 --> 00:09:17.308
I started thinking about it,
there weren't many psychological

02f1d6cb-1c1d-4971-815c-32fec86af499-2
00:09:17.308 --> 00:09:20.435
analysis of nationalism and
populism. And, equally

02f1d6cb-1c1d-4971-815c-32fec86af499-3
00:09:20.435 --> 00:09:24.421
important, not many was not many
studies were trying to theorise

02f1d6cb-1c1d-4971-815c-32fec86af499-4
00:09:24.421 --> 00:09:27.610
the ways in which nationalism
and populism seem to.

9b6bdfb4-4b42-43b9-8293-54837e6efc0d-0
00:09:28.400 --> 00:09:31.010
And repeat themselves in in
different ways.

a311546a-f903-4922-85ec-33371e91824d-0
00:09:34.070 --> 00:09:38.197
And so the ways in which I've,
I've, um, decided to address

a311546a-f903-4922-85ec-33371e91824d-1
00:09:38.197 --> 00:09:42.668
these you again, bringing in the
kind of psychological lens into

a311546a-f903-4922-85ec-33371e91824d-2
00:09:42.668 --> 00:09:46.521
the study of nationalism and
populism, as well as other

a311546a-f903-4922-85ec-33371e91824d-3
00:09:46.521 --> 00:09:48.860
aspects of my research, which
is.

24338704-15d2-4129-bb32-7776b1c67cd0-0
00:09:51.060 --> 00:09:53.810
Security as well. It is Israel,
Palestine.

09f4defa-563a-44c5-af00-16964bbd2e67-0
00:09:54.550 --> 00:09:56.670
Is to look at the ways in which.

ce8278f3-bfc2-44b5-a7de-84e6906c1dc5-0
00:09:57.870 --> 00:10:02.138
The Kenyan psychoanalysis and
particularly drawing on the work

ce8278f3-bfc2-44b5-a7de-84e6906c1dc5-1
00:10:02.138 --> 00:10:05.390
of of Jajja can offer some
insights as well as.

698643a8-124c-4455-9680-08f7644858f3-0
00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:06.660
Um.

c8968c42-45e3-4eb5-b83d-6b9697fde4d5-0
00:10:07.380 --> 00:10:11.481
Ways of explaining the ways in
which nationalism seems to

c8968c42-45e3-4eb5-b83d-6b9697fde4d5-1
00:10:11.481 --> 00:10:14.663
repeat itself, albeit in
different forms and

c8968c42-45e3-4eb5-b83d-6b9697fde4d5-2
00:10:14.663 --> 00:10:18.270
manifestations, and indeed
appeal and interpolate.

3288e9ab-2f60-47b7-99ef-ca0524bddbe2-0
00:10:19.530 --> 00:10:24.150
Subjectivities and I would like
to focus even though there are

3288e9ab-2f60-47b7-99ef-ca0524bddbe2-1
00:10:24.150 --> 00:10:28.403
many other psychological
concepts that are useful here on

3288e9ab-2f60-47b7-99ef-ca0524bddbe2-2
00:10:28.403 --> 00:10:29.210
three main.

c014d6a1-e844-46de-85f3-0773fc47498a-0
00:10:30.780 --> 00:10:35.316
Psychological machineries, if
you like, and those are void, or

c014d6a1-e844-46de-85f3-0773fc47498a-1
00:10:35.316 --> 00:10:39.997
more accurately the ontology or
void, which I think are crucial.

c014d6a1-e844-46de-85f3-0773fc47498a-2
00:10:39.997 --> 00:10:44.461
And there's something to say
here about offering a discourse,

c014d6a1-e844-46de-85f3-0773fc47498a-3
00:10:44.461 --> 00:10:46.549
analytical and psychological.

84b2e6d1-4e7d-4e4f-8098-660bb81f4002-0
00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:48.510
Um.

6ad52902-8fca-45ce-a04b-82c70bcdc667-0
00:10:49.690 --> 00:10:53.562
Analysis that is nonetheless
engaging with ontological

6ad52902-8fca-45ce-a04b-82c70bcdc667-1
00:10:53.562 --> 00:10:57.997
question, that is to say, not
taking anti essentialist or anti

6ad52902-8fca-45ce-a04b-82c70bcdc667-2
00:10:57.997 --> 00:11:00.180
foundationalist stance as some.

e5cf9d32-da05-4b03-a710-16b8414bd6dc-0
00:11:00.900 --> 00:11:02.820
Poststructuralist do.

790bfb35-daf1-4d9d-a91a-7577bbd14733-0
00:11:03.900 --> 00:11:08.009
The second one is fantasy,
trying to point to a particular

790bfb35-daf1-4d9d-a91a-7577bbd14733-1
00:11:08.009 --> 00:11:12.398
ways in which nationalist and
populist narratives operate, how

790bfb35-daf1-4d9d-a91a-7577bbd14733-2
00:11:12.398 --> 00:11:14.070
they sustain themselves.

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-0
00:11:15.400 --> 00:11:19.660
And finally, which I think is
again crucial as a way to, um,

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-1
00:11:19.660 --> 00:11:23.920
animate discourse in archive,
which is again if connected to

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-2
00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:28.180
the to the brief survey of the
literature of justice offered

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-3
00:11:28.180 --> 00:11:32.231
is, I think I argue is missing
for more traditional quote

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-4
00:11:32.231 --> 00:11:36.282
unquote discourse analytical
approaches, whether it's the

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-5
00:11:36.282 --> 00:11:40.473
kind of foucauldian inspired
discourse analysis or critical

25923af0-d850-44e9-b8e6-2b610584031a-6
00:11:40.473 --> 00:11:41.800
discourse analysis.

052cb686-5528-4952-b9be-7c579b5835f8-0
00:11:42.820 --> 00:11:46.403
These are the three machineries
that I would like to focus on,

052cb686-5528-4952-b9be-7c579b5835f8-1
00:11:46.403 --> 00:11:49.872
void fantasy and Joy sans. And
as I said at the beginning, I

052cb686-5528-4952-b9be-7c579b5835f8-2
00:11:49.872 --> 00:11:51.010
think these are not.

97a366d1-9a13-4934-ad0c-582eef411283-0
00:11:51.820 --> 00:11:54.190
Um, merely?

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-0
00:11:56.730 --> 00:12:00.602
Or I'll define, I'll articulate
differently. I do not think that

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-1
00:12:00.602 --> 00:12:04.296
nationalism and populism, in the
way at least I see them, are

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-2
00:12:04.296 --> 00:12:07.335
particular phenomena to be
investigated within the

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-3
00:12:07.335 --> 00:12:10.969
specificities of a particular
society or a particular nation

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-4
00:12:10.969 --> 00:12:14.306
or particular so-called nation
state. I think these are

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-5
00:12:14.306 --> 00:12:17.881
socially and politically and
global, politically important.

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-6
00:12:17.881 --> 00:12:21.336
And I think that's one of the
ways I think we should also

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-7
00:12:21.336 --> 00:12:25.209
think about these phenomena and
not just within the countries in

bc0468d5-060f-491f-bcf3-7e611e6a5082-8
00:12:25.209 --> 00:12:26.580
which they they happen.

3201806f-6a9a-4ce8-93db-36a85595a51c-0
00:12:26.650 --> 00:12:27.310
Even though.

47b4c4b5-a0de-4b14-a429-1e271d31f17f-0
00:12:28.220 --> 00:12:31.964
And culturally, linguistically
and so forth, you have those

47b4c4b5-a0de-4b14-a429-1e271d31f17f-1
00:12:31.964 --> 00:12:35.708
specific aspects which are
critical, but to look at it more

47b4c4b5-a0de-4b14-a429-1e271d31f17f-2
00:12:35.708 --> 00:12:36.269
globally.

fa12886d-9576-4eb2-8895-2a9a64bcd078-0
00:12:39.350 --> 00:12:43.842
So again, I'm relying very much
on on Jack and stealing some of

fa12886d-9576-4eb2-8895-2a9a64bcd078-1
00:12:43.842 --> 00:12:48.195
the of the uh pictures from uh
from his books and from his uh

fa12886d-9576-4eb2-8895-2a9a64bcd078-2
00:12:48.195 --> 00:12:49.950
perverts guide to cinema.

aaafece3-ca6a-41c7-9fdf-d5357a245873-0
00:12:50.710 --> 00:12:54.752
Hopefully that's OK with
copyright law, but I think as

aaafece3-ca6a-41c7-9fdf-d5357a245873-1
00:12:54.752 --> 00:12:59.382
long as we don't circulate the
presentation too much should be

aaafece3-ca6a-41c7-9fdf-d5357a245873-2
00:12:59.382 --> 00:13:04.012
fine. And if we focus firstly on
void and the ontology of void

aaafece3-ca6a-41c7-9fdf-d5357a245873-3
00:13:04.012 --> 00:13:08.716
and connected to nationalism and
populism. And the the starting

aaafece3-ca6a-41c7-9fdf-d5357a245873-4
00:13:08.716 --> 00:13:12.758
point is really the kind of
throw the Freudian ID that

aaafece3-ca6a-41c7-9fdf-d5357a245873-5
00:13:12.758 --> 00:13:16.579
Jacques Lacan developed and is
later a key part of.

d4fe42a3-a15e-4b7f-8367-3dc79b03af71-0
00:13:17.320 --> 00:13:23.504
Of slave, Rojak and others. More
contemporary analysis is the

d4fe42a3-a15e-4b7f-8367-3dc79b03af71-1
00:13:23.504 --> 00:13:29.987
idea of of spaltung later on as
Lacan developed the mirror stage

d4fe42a3-a15e-4b7f-8367-3dc79b03af71-2
00:13:29.987 --> 00:13:32.880
and debarred subject and the.

1fc85490-e0b7-4bcc-9129-ff8cd9be0b80-0
00:13:33.580 --> 00:13:37.854
To be very, very brief and not
to go too much into the the kind

1fc85490-e0b7-4bcc-9129-ff8cd9be0b80-1
00:13:37.854 --> 00:13:41.728
of complexity of Lacanian
psychoanalysis here the idea is

1fc85490-e0b7-4bcc-9129-ff8cd9be0b80-2
00:13:41.728 --> 00:13:42.330
that the.

a049137b-46a4-43b9-9fa8-e8a94a8fb31d-0
00:13:43.290 --> 00:13:47.460
And this is how I think it
differs from from from.

3c6b38b4-5d84-4291-9f6e-b4aed1f1b1fc-0
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.909
Either sychological explanation
applied to the sociopolitical

3c6b38b4-5d84-4291-9f6e-b4aed1f1b1fc-1
00:13:52.909 --> 00:13:57.277
world, but also to discourse
analytical as well as social

3c6b38b4-5d84-4291-9f6e-b4aed1f1b1fc-2
00:13:57.277 --> 00:14:00.440
constructivist approaches to
nationalism.

5f900b0d-7587-444b-b5d9-19988a9a3f6e-0
00:14:01.250 --> 00:14:06.321
Is that the, um, the subject and
indeed the object? And I will

5f900b0d-7587-444b-b5d9-19988a9a3f6e-1
00:14:06.321 --> 00:14:10.668
talk about that in a bit.
Ontologically speaking, our

5f900b0d-7587-444b-b5d9-19988a9a3f6e-2
00:14:10.668 --> 00:14:15.257
split or barred and the notion
he or the the ontological

5f900b0d-7587-444b-b5d9-19988a9a3f6e-3
00:14:15.257 --> 00:14:18.879
foundational understanding here
is that the.

b1d7c895-877c-46da-92b1-a051ca304427-0
00:14:19.630 --> 00:14:24.143
The subject, and again the
object, which I'll talk about in

b1d7c895-877c-46da-92b1-a051ca304427-1
00:14:24.143 --> 00:14:28.807
a minute when I talk about the
nation and the state, and very

b1d7c895-877c-46da-92b1-a051ca304427-2
00:14:28.807 --> 00:14:33.546
much is constituted through that
split through that void which

b1d7c895-877c-46da-92b1-a051ca304427-3
00:14:33.546 --> 00:14:34.899
one becomes aware.

5fa31cb1-de9e-45ce-a8d1-91d9c43ef56f-0
00:14:35.770 --> 00:14:38.767
Through the mirror stage and
through the development of of if

5fa31cb1-de9e-45ce-a8d1-91d9c43ef56f-1
00:14:38.767 --> 00:14:40.460
you like the toddler and then
the.

f81f1541-f2f0-4c44-8fae-d155f1bc9a09-0
00:14:41.270 --> 00:14:43.760
The child into adulthood, um.

4c449218-891b-4ce2-9fda-65d420274e01-0
00:14:44.130 --> 00:14:45.380
Thereby there.

c3e58dcc-82ce-414a-8bdf-79c9ac42c19c-0
00:14:46.530 --> 00:14:53.346
Inner self so to speak, if if to
use a new age terminology is is

c3e58dcc-82ce-414a-8bdf-79c9ac42c19c-1
00:14:53.346 --> 00:14:59.952
is lacking and that lack that
sense of of ontological gap is 1

c3e58dcc-82ce-414a-8bdf-79c9ac42c19c-2
00:14:59.952 --> 00:15:06.453
which both produces or entails,
if you like anxiety, but also

c3e58dcc-82ce-414a-8bdf-79c9ac42c19c-3
00:15:06.453 --> 00:15:12.955
pushes the subject in continuous
and of course impossible and

c3e58dcc-82ce-414a-8bdf-79c9ac42c19c-4
00:15:12.955 --> 00:15:16.940
bound to fail journey into
trying to.

0a0fc140-4fc2-471d-9168-41032daba27b-0
00:15:17.010 --> 00:15:22.458
Fill in that particular gap to
try and cover in, or cover up if

0a0fc140-4fc2-471d-9168-41032daba27b-1
00:15:22.458 --> 00:15:23.650
you like that.

78666b3d-fd82-4d1b-952a-bef99a174333-0
00:15:25.040 --> 00:15:31.642
Ontological void at the heart of
the subject, and so from that

78666b3d-fd82-4d1b-952a-bef99a174333-1
00:15:31.642 --> 00:15:37.196
particular aspect of
psychoanalysis, and there is no

78666b3d-fd82-4d1b-952a-bef99a174333-2
00:15:37.196 --> 00:15:38.140
internal.

15cec1e9-45b8-45e8-8fa2-b730732375e8-0
00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:43.100
Truth or in all kind of real
kernel to subjectivity that if

15cec1e9-45b8-45e8-8fa2-b730732375e8-1
00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:47.398
you just look inside or do a
particular kind of psychological

15cec1e9-45b8-45e8-8fa2-b730732375e8-2
00:15:47.398 --> 00:15:48.300
and clinical.

5ba48454-efa8-49b7-b789-cb589ec2a54c-0
00:15:48.970 --> 00:15:53.818
Analysis you might find a true
self. There is no true self as

5ba48454-efa8-49b7-b789-cb589ec2a54c-1
00:15:53.818 --> 00:15:58.901
such. There is that gap and that
desire to if you like and cover

5ba48454-efa8-49b7-b789-cb589ec2a54c-2
00:15:58.901 --> 00:16:02.419
it or even eradicate it. Which
is of course.

23fef44c-0831-400e-ba91-b4f4f098c8f9-0
00:16:03.810 --> 00:16:04.410
Is impossible.

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-0
00:16:05.790 --> 00:16:09.384
And if I if I connected to
nationalism, I think that is

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-1
00:16:09.384 --> 00:16:13.043
very, very helpful in both
understanding how nationalism

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-2
00:16:13.043 --> 00:16:16.959
and national identity operates,
but also how the idea of the

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-3
00:16:16.959 --> 00:16:20.875
nation and the state and the
so-called nation state and came

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-4
00:16:20.875 --> 00:16:24.983
to be. And here I think that the
very known nationalism scholar

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-5
00:16:24.983 --> 00:16:29.028
Ernest Keller is actually very
useful and he obviously offered

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-6
00:16:29.028 --> 00:16:32.622
a much more kind of positivistic
historical materialist

381d71c4-1d26-4559-a5e9-61a8be30de40-7
00:16:32.622 --> 00:16:35.640
understanding of nationalism
within modernity.

cc659429-bbe7-45e6-a6ba-bf8e578a553f-0
00:16:35.750 --> 00:16:39.825
Within urbanisation,
industrialization and so forth.

cc659429-bbe7-45e6-a6ba-bf8e578a553f-1
00:16:39.825 --> 00:16:44.517
And his main maxim, if you like,
was that nationalism always

cc659429-bbe7-45e6-a6ba-bf8e578a553f-2
00:16:44.517 --> 00:16:48.746
strives to produce a form of
homogeneity or congruency

cc659429-bbe7-45e6-a6ba-bf8e578a553f-3
00:16:48.746 --> 00:16:53.053
between nation and state,
between authority, population

cc659429-bbe7-45e6-a6ba-bf8e578a553f-4
00:16:53.053 --> 00:16:54.130
and territory.

4f068ffc-8b80-41e8-bcc4-e39e87003749-0
00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:56.820
And I think if we use that.

e0831860-0cc9-48f4-a037-27da400a2588-0
00:16:57.590 --> 00:17:01.663
Very problematic given Marian
understanding of nationalism,

e0831860-0cc9-48f4-a037-27da400a2588-1
00:17:01.663 --> 00:17:06.008
but we look at it critically to
the psychological lengths of of

e0831860-0cc9-48f4-a037-27da400a2588-2
00:17:06.008 --> 00:17:10.013
of the parts of the Bard.
Subject of the ontology of void,

e0831860-0cc9-48f4-a037-27da400a2588-3
00:17:10.013 --> 00:17:11.100
we can see that.

b7979922-abc8-4b6b-9a66-dc120aad1eb5-0
00:17:11.840 --> 00:17:15.202
The nation state as an object
and not just the particular

b7979922-abc8-4b6b-9a66-dc120aad1eb5-1
00:17:15.202 --> 00:17:18.680
national subject. And This is
why I think it's important to

b7979922-abc8-4b6b-9a66-dc120aad1eb5-2
00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:22.274
think about the ontology of void
at both these subjective and

b7979922-abc8-4b6b-9a66-dc120aad1eb5-3
00:17:22.274 --> 00:17:23.260
objective levels.

71e8987a-e6c6-4c19-82cd-3857f2a7f60f-0
00:17:24.080 --> 00:17:28.296
Means that the nation, the state
and the so-called nation state

71e8987a-e6c6-4c19-82cd-3857f2a7f60f-1
00:17:28.296 --> 00:17:32.184
are always in that sense of
anxiety whereby they strive to

71e8987a-e6c6-4c19-82cd-3857f2a7f60f-2
00:17:32.184 --> 00:17:36.071
create that form of homogeneity
and congruency which is of

71e8987a-e6c6-4c19-82cd-3857f2a7f60f-3
00:17:36.071 --> 00:17:40.288
course an an impossibility. It
simply does not exist and cannot

71e8987a-e6c6-4c19-82cd-3857f2a7f60f-4
00:17:40.288 --> 00:17:42.660
achieve itself for various
reasons.

2e8095fe-845c-4f3f-a33a-4814feb08d01-0
00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:49.414
And that's why it continuously
strives endeavours to eradicate

2e8095fe-845c-4f3f-a33a-4814feb08d01-1
00:17:49.414 --> 00:17:54.857
that split, that gap within its
being. But it is that gap within

2e8095fe-845c-4f3f-a33a-4814feb08d01-2
00:17:54.857 --> 00:18:00.215
its being, within its narrative
of nationalism, of trying to be

2e8095fe-845c-4f3f-a33a-4814feb08d01-3
00:18:00.215 --> 00:18:03.230
congruent, of trying to be
unified.

88ca5c58-bb5f-48cc-94f4-54cd4ee89be0-0
00:18:03.870 --> 00:18:08.730
That pushes it continuously to
reinvent stories around. Its

88ca5c58-bb5f-48cc-94f4-54cd4ee89be0-1
00:18:08.730 --> 00:18:09.540
so-called.

d1c9ce95-5339-4698-a15e-24a5b680c481-0
00:18:11.280 --> 00:18:14.908
Identity and that is why just to
conclude and move on just

d1c9ce95-5339-4698-a15e-24a5b680c481-1
00:18:14.908 --> 00:18:16.630
because of time constraints.

8a10b8b2-993c-4e29-92d1-904b3d96e64d-0
00:18:17.390 --> 00:18:21.491
When we talk about nationalism,
when we talk about populism and

8a10b8b2-993c-4e29-92d1-904b3d96e64d-1
00:18:21.491 --> 00:18:25.080
and and in general in the social
sciences, if you like.

36261d50-d9ab-406c-af77-6d2072202780-0
00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:29.926
It is probably more accurate
from a psychological perspective

36261d50-d9ab-406c-af77-6d2072202780-1
00:18:29.926 --> 00:18:33.430
to talk about identifications
rather than identity.

361d7458-32f4-4151-bcd3-9c113acfa4fc-0
00:18:34.200 --> 00:18:38.030
Because what we're pointing to
is a continuous attempt.

93341dff-b67a-4b47-922c-f29116b77699-0
00:18:38.750 --> 00:18:42.539
To achieve that form of identity
of that fixed identity, which is

93341dff-b67a-4b47-922c-f29116b77699-1
00:18:42.539 --> 00:18:44.090
of course an impossibility.

22559e26-0977-4d0d-8942-d5dfad078eab-0
00:18:47.540 --> 00:18:51.285
So void offers us the
ontological foundations, if you

22559e26-0977-4d0d-8942-d5dfad078eab-1
00:18:51.285 --> 00:18:55.308
like, of get objective and
subjective level and connected

22559e26-0977-4d0d-8942-d5dfad078eab-2
00:18:55.308 --> 00:18:58.984
to nationalism and the nation
and the status of just

22559e26-0977-4d0d-8942-d5dfad078eab-3
00:18:58.984 --> 00:19:03.492
explained. But we need something
else and other machinery if you

22559e26-0977-4d0d-8942-d5dfad078eab-4
00:19:03.492 --> 00:19:04.880
like to explain how.

6cd941e4-610c-4010-b3fb-0eafbe20e496-0
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:10.293
Nationalism and populism repeat,
albeit in different ways. And

6cd941e4-610c-4010-b3fb-0eafbe20e496-1
00:19:10.293 --> 00:19:14.794
that's where I think the concept
of fantasy, which was really

6cd941e4-610c-4010-b3fb-0eafbe20e496-2
00:19:14.794 --> 00:19:18.569
further developed by Zajac, he's
very, very useful.

970e41e1-1f3a-491e-b163-bee0f88245af-0
00:19:19.590 --> 00:19:24.561
And so the way in which fantasy
operates is really by having two

970e41e1-1f3a-491e-b163-bee0f88245af-1
00:19:24.561 --> 00:19:29.533
sides, what jija calls two sides
of the same coin, fantasy 1 and

970e41e1-1f3a-491e-b163-bee0f88245af-2
00:19:29.533 --> 00:19:33.969
fantasy 2. Fantasy 1 is that
aspect of narrative, of that

970e41e1-1f3a-491e-b163-bee0f88245af-3
00:19:33.969 --> 00:19:38.100
national or nationalistic
populist narrative whereby.

37937e3c-6132-40d3-9f06-182e1c5271f3-0
00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:39.570
Just around the corner.

d2bb4ff7-6935-4a17-a621-6d16c67a697e-0
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:46.010
You can see that in particular
stories about grandeur.

c1efc1f3-64e4-4dc4-b03f-ed2664f9e8ff-0
00:19:47.200 --> 00:19:50.230
Yeah, past heroic victories, um.

37613097-148b-4cfc-9716-ca001b2de660-0
00:19:51.260 --> 00:19:51.880
And.

08fd4e2a-6ed2-4738-8e8e-d4e7cca9809e-0
00:19:52.800 --> 00:19:57.712
The idea of of a future
harmonious situation in which

08fd4e2a-6ed2-4738-8e8e-d4e7cca9809e-1
00:19:57.712 --> 00:20:03.626
success, glory, and so forth are
we installed when we talk about

08fd4e2a-6ed2-4738-8e8e-d4e7cca9809e-2
00:20:03.626 --> 00:20:09.540
particularly and nationalism and
populism. But at the same time,

08fd4e2a-6ed2-4738-8e8e-d4e7cca9809e-3
00:20:09.540 --> 00:20:15.271
because again the ontology of
void that fantasy is impossible,

08fd4e2a-6ed2-4738-8e8e-d4e7cca9809e-4
00:20:15.271 --> 00:20:21.003
it must entail its own inbuilt
failure, its own inbuilt other,

08fd4e2a-6ed2-4738-8e8e-d4e7cca9809e-5
00:20:21.003 --> 00:20:22.550
so to speak, and.

a6e407c3-0b58-4737-8cdd-eb16b6267530-0
00:20:22.730 --> 00:20:25.120
That aspect of fantasy.

17002fbe-0fd9-44f5-b0fe-c25a5818b65c-0
00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.970
Which is equals fantasy 2 is
crucial.

ac7d279c-9a80-477a-8060-6734a79ce49c-0
00:20:30.790 --> 00:20:35.125
To the operation of of of
fantasy. So we cannot have

ac7d279c-9a80-477a-8060-6734a79ce49c-1
00:20:35.125 --> 00:20:40.360
fantasy 1 without a fantasy 2.
And I think the quote from Ajax.

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-0
00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:46.630
Chapter in in done in Opus is an
edited collection and is very

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-1
00:20:46.630 --> 00:20:50.850
useful as, as he writes, the
foreclosed obverse of the Nazi

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-2
00:20:50.850 --> 00:20:55.070
Harmonious Forks Command Shaft
returned in the guise of the

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-3
00:20:55.070 --> 00:20:59.078
paranoiac obsession with the
Jewish plot. Similarly, the

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-4
00:20:59.078 --> 00:21:02.946
Stalinist compulsive discovery
of every new enemies of

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-5
00:21:02.946 --> 00:21:07.236
socialism was the inescapable
obverse of their pretending to

46bb3160-4ca6-4cb7-8460-6ffa53732e3b-6
00:21:07.236 --> 00:21:10.050
realise the ideal of the new
socialist.

f0e0a44a-274c-45d3-9753-6dd4a87e0a78-0
00:21:10.790 --> 00:21:15.360
Man. And so again, you must have
that utopian.

3c477cb7-08cc-4fbb-af34-1998540eef8a-0
00:21:16.430 --> 00:21:18.220
Promise of.

34b5eb50-994e-48cf-a8ce-893ba543a64f-0
00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:25.551
If you like a beatific future, a
harmonious future, a congruent

34b5eb50-994e-48cf-a8ce-893ba543a64f-1
00:21:25.551 --> 00:21:30.220
nation and state, but at the
same time include inside.

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-0
00:21:30.900 --> 00:21:35.402
And why that is not possible and
if we think particularly about

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-1
00:21:35.402 --> 00:21:39.483
nationalism and populism and
particular cases, and I will

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-2
00:21:39.483 --> 00:21:43.775
give a few examples in a few
seconds, we can see and and and

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-3
00:21:43.775 --> 00:21:47.786
I'm sure many of you who are
researchers in the field of

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-4
00:21:47.786 --> 00:21:51.866
migration and borders will
identify this immediately. How

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-5
00:21:51.866 --> 00:21:56.018
migrants and of course the
rationalisation of of migration

df29570c-d416-467d-8981-3e9bd4e3450f-6
00:21:56.018 --> 00:22:00.310
functions in this way in various
nationalistic and populist.

bc363e05-b2c2-48a9-aee0-4b651156487f-0
00:22:00.830 --> 00:22:04.200
Narrative narratives in the
sense what the.

9aa04aa6-ab72-49ec-85b7-a0ddadc79474-0
00:22:05.030 --> 00:22:11.110
With the migrant the subject and
migration as as such and are

9aa04aa6-ab72-49ec-85b7-a0ddadc79474-1
00:22:11.110 --> 00:22:12.680
used to kind of.

76e3ae01-86b6-41cf-92c1-1618a384f8b8-0
00:22:13.410 --> 00:22:20.314
In built to make sure that the
fantasy is sustained. If only we

76e3ae01-86b6-41cf-92c1-1618a384f8b8-1
00:22:20.314 --> 00:22:22.580
could stop all those.

4e8ec961-bc2a-4363-9eba-d8fe66d18687-0
00:22:23.530 --> 00:22:26.586
Migrants crossing the channel,
for instance, if we could all

4e8ec961-bc2a-4363-9eba-d8fe66d18687-1
00:22:26.586 --> 00:22:28.590
just stop all the migrants
coming from.

e3fd763c-b962-45a0-b78e-7a5a576e784d-0
00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:34.224
Africa into the shores of Europe
or elsewhere into Australia,

e3fd763c-b962-45a0-b78e-7a5a576e784d-1
00:22:34.224 --> 00:22:38.680
then we would be a successful
flourishing, harmonious society,

e3fd763c-b962-45a0-b78e-7a5a576e784d-2
00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.994
reinstate our past grandeurs,
and so on and so forth. And so

e3fd763c-b962-45a0-b78e-7a5a576e784d-3
00:22:42.994 --> 00:22:46.884
it's important to understand
that structurally the two

e3fd763c-b962-45a0-b78e-7a5a576e784d-4
00:22:46.884 --> 00:22:51.410
aspects must be together. And at
the end I will say a few words

e3fd763c-b962-45a0-b78e-7a5a576e784d-5
00:22:51.410 --> 00:22:54.310
about what's next or what
happens if we.

7f6eb62b-3832-42b4-9b52-752f2020eb4a-0
00:22:55.820 --> 00:22:58.750
And trying to eradicate 1 aspect
of the fantasy.

51c034e9-3ce6-447f-b4b9-540a665d2489-0
00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:03.630
So here's an example from from
Brexit which I've I've I've

51c034e9-3ce6-447f-b4b9-540a665d2489-1
00:23:03.630 --> 00:23:04.820
written about in in.

9decbc8a-e316-42d6-846d-82c487bf50f6-0
00:23:05.450 --> 00:23:08.333
In the past, I published in the
International Journal for the

9decbc8a-e316-42d6-846d-82c487bf50f6-1
00:23:08.333 --> 00:23:11.309
Semiotics of Lloyds, part of a
special issue that offered fewer

9decbc8a-e316-42d6-846d-82c487bf50f6-2
00:23:11.309 --> 00:23:11.960
psychological.

bc6db059-8309-44b8-ae44-f74a58885496-0
00:23:13.620 --> 00:23:17.368
Critics of contemporary
sociopolitical issues that was

bc6db059-8309-44b8-ae44-f74a58885496-1
00:23:17.368 --> 00:23:21.594
published a couple of years ago
and the ways in which the the

bc6db059-8309-44b8-ae44-f74a58885496-2
00:23:21.594 --> 00:23:23.230
the Brexit vote, Brexit.

4d9c2ead-01b1-4aee-9371-c4d14c8dfcfe-0
00:23:24.690 --> 00:23:27.240
Campaign was um.

efd25d7a-5320-4c55-bcf0-f00fef4a89b2-0
00:23:28.410 --> 00:23:33.196
It was produced online back in
2016 in in the UK very much

efd25d7a-5320-4c55-bcf0-f00fef4a89b2-1
00:23:33.196 --> 00:23:36.360
functioned around the logical
fantasy.

8529c2cd-b970-46f9-8696-1a5df123e463-0
00:23:37.030 --> 00:23:40.879
And if you go to the website
which I believe is still

8529c2cd-b970-46f9-8696-1a5df123e463-1
00:23:40.879 --> 00:23:45.229
available nowadays, and you open
a that particular tab about

8529c2cd-b970-46f9-8696-1a5df123e463-2
00:23:45.229 --> 00:23:49.506
about why vote to leave the EU,
you can see that very, very

8529c2cd-b970-46f9-8696-1a5df123e463-3
00:23:49.506 --> 00:23:53.641
clearly. Now the point I'm
trying to make is not that the

8529c2cd-b970-46f9-8696-1a5df123e463-4
00:23:53.641 --> 00:23:57.990
the arguments that they made
were false. Obviously they were

8529c2cd-b970-46f9-8696-1a5df123e463-5
00:23:57.990 --> 00:24:02.340
false, right? The idea that
Turkey will join the EU or that.

e34813e9-0d37-48c5-bd21-9f3a6f5cf9fc-0
00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:04.610
Um.

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-0
00:24:05.390 --> 00:24:09.544
Money will be used for the NHS
and so forth those those are

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-1
00:24:09.544 --> 00:24:13.491
obviously just just just false
and lies but the point is

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-2
00:24:13.491 --> 00:24:17.992
structurally speaking that that
idea of the of the blue and it's

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-3
00:24:17.992 --> 00:24:22.077
interesting that that have used
the blue there's something

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-4
00:24:22.077 --> 00:24:26.024
probably more to say about blue
and utopians been plenty

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-5
00:24:26.024 --> 00:24:29.902
research on that as well that
the utopia of of of Great

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-6
00:24:29.902 --> 00:24:34.402
Britain of making Britain great
again was this kind of idea of a

5e587579-b5cf-452a-8f75-0067ab2eedfd-7
00:24:34.402 --> 00:24:35.580
peaceful Britain.

cb6c5063-94d9-4a6c-91b7-10d9f60641c8-0
00:24:35.930 --> 00:24:36.560
Um.

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-0
00:24:37.290 --> 00:24:41.423
Control of our borders,
harmonious society and even

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-1
00:24:41.423 --> 00:24:46.193
appealing even if indirectly
because there was a great deal

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-2
00:24:46.193 --> 00:24:51.281
of racism in in the Brexit vote,
a kind of openness and and and

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-3
00:24:51.281 --> 00:24:56.448
plural or global Britain as some
politicians have put it whereby

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-4
00:24:56.448 --> 00:25:01.456
the inbuilt failure within the
fantasy in red on the left hand

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-5
00:25:01.456 --> 00:25:06.305
side was all those aspects,
internal and external, which are

f99c4677-2ba1-440e-824a-ff3f21544d61-6
00:25:06.305 --> 00:25:07.180
preventing.

60816a08-1307-414d-9b26-bafbb547ac55-0
00:25:07.250 --> 00:25:10.271
Us as it were in the UK to
become great again and again

60816a08-1307-414d-9b26-bafbb547ac55-1
00:25:10.271 --> 00:25:13.779
there was the idea of migration.
Of course it was migration from

60816a08-1307-414d-9b26-bafbb547ac55-2
00:25:13.779 --> 00:25:17.124
particular countries that were
non white or non Christian. So

60816a08-1307-414d-9b26-bafbb547ac55-3
00:25:17.124 --> 00:25:20.200
there's a great deal of
racialization in that process as

60816a08-1307-414d-9b26-bafbb547ac55-4
00:25:20.200 --> 00:25:20.470
well.

66de898d-112a-41be-8911-19693842dcdc-0
00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:26.628
Arguments about more money, more
investment in, as it were,

66de898d-112a-41be-8911-19693842dcdc-1
00:25:26.628 --> 00:25:30.309
society and control and
sovereignty over borders and

66de898d-112a-41be-8911-19693842dcdc-2
00:25:30.309 --> 00:25:34.477
laws. So again, structurally
speaking, you can see how they

66de898d-112a-41be-8911-19693842dcdc-3
00:25:34.477 --> 00:25:38.645
do the two aspects of fantasy,
fantasy 1, fantasy 2 sustain

66de898d-112a-41be-8911-19693842dcdc-4
00:25:38.645 --> 00:25:39.410
themselves.

c28abeec-fd7f-4a73-9801-3ab9cafbfca6-0
00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:49.798
But if we only focus on the
ontology of void on the board

c28abeec-fd7f-4a73-9801-3ab9cafbfca6-1
00:25:49.798 --> 00:25:54.099
subject, and if we only focus on
fun, on fantasy and the ways in

c28abeec-fd7f-4a73-9801-3ab9cafbfca6-2
00:25:54.099 --> 00:25:57.342
which the narratives of
nationalism and populism

c28abeec-fd7f-4a73-9801-3ab9cafbfca6-3
00:25:57.342 --> 00:26:01.709
operate, we still remain at that
level of, if you like, narrative

c28abeec-fd7f-4a73-9801-3ab9cafbfca6-4
00:26:01.709 --> 00:26:02.569
of discourse.

be42b85b-f66e-4318-8ad5-bcddbbe2df84-0
00:26:04.230 --> 00:26:09.382
And I think that um, from, from,
from the psychological lands

be42b85b-f66e-4318-8ad5-bcddbbe2df84-1
00:26:09.382 --> 00:26:14.036
that I'm bringing is is not
enough to explain how those

be42b85b-f66e-4318-8ad5-bcddbbe2df84-2
00:26:14.036 --> 00:26:19.105
operate and affectively and
badly. And I think we have to to

be42b85b-f66e-4318-8ad5-bcddbbe2df84-3
00:26:19.105 --> 00:26:23.925
pay more attention to the ways
in which such phenomena is

be42b85b-f66e-4318-8ad5-bcddbbe2df84-4
00:26:23.925 --> 00:26:28.330
nationalism and populism operate
really on the body.

8acbcf67-3a31-4dd8-8ca2-f88d46c048c5-0
00:26:29.760 --> 00:26:34.184
And this is where the joy sounds
badly translated as enjoyment.

8acbcf67-3a31-4dd8-8ca2-f88d46c048c5-1
00:26:34.184 --> 00:26:38.402
Some with argued this is a the
pleasure in pain if if you if

8acbcf67-3a31-4dd8-8ca2-f88d46c048c5-2
00:26:38.402 --> 00:26:40.200
you look to Sigmund Freud.

0491d91e-0c16-43f6-b546-36cfe742f0c3-0
00:26:40.930 --> 00:26:45.829
Um is necessary, necessary to
explain the various investments

0491d91e-0c16-43f6-b546-36cfe742f0c3-1
00:26:45.829 --> 00:26:50.253
again, those libidinal,
effective bodily investments in

0491d91e-0c16-43f6-b546-36cfe742f0c3-2
00:26:50.253 --> 00:26:55.310
these courses, in narratives of
making our country great again.

0491d91e-0c16-43f6-b546-36cfe742f0c3-3
00:26:55.310 --> 00:27:00.210
In narratives of, if you like,
the resurgence of nationalism.

bced6a64-858c-496e-9293-652f945652f1-0
00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:01.690
And populism.

6aa5cee2-fe66-450e-af8c-7713877424d1-0
00:27:02.750 --> 00:27:07.109
And as they've offered before,
This is why you have those

6aa5cee2-fe66-450e-af8c-7713877424d1-1
00:27:07.109 --> 00:27:11.017
various fantasies that are
filled with those bodily

6aa5cee2-fe66-450e-af8c-7713877424d1-2
00:27:11.017 --> 00:27:12.220
enjoyment about.

0cb0cfc6-a256-4326-95cf-f2600b2e0354-0
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:17.650
Last golden eras. If you think
about making America great again

0cb0cfc6-a256-4326-95cf-f2600b2e0354-1
00:27:17.650 --> 00:27:21.128
or making Britain great again,
the idea of restoring a sense

0cb0cfc6-a256-4326-95cf-f2600b2e0354-2
00:27:21.128 --> 00:27:21.300
of.

f090c5c1-4cfc-4be1-a90f-06222ff7f5d1-0
00:27:22.140 --> 00:27:27.363
Imperial Colonial power and of
global political influence in

f090c5c1-4cfc-4be1-a90f-06222ff7f5d1-1
00:27:27.363 --> 00:27:31.560
the world, and and and so forth.
Which are then?

f1903346-3602-456b-8807-e1b8f46b3d8a-0
00:27:32.310 --> 00:27:37.518
And this is again how fantasy 2
is critical to fantasy 1, and

f1903346-3602-456b-8807-e1b8f46b3d8a-1
00:27:37.518 --> 00:27:42.895
has been taken, indeed stolen,
by someone else. And the ways in

f1903346-3602-456b-8807-e1b8f46b3d8a-2
00:27:42.895 --> 00:27:47.683
which enjoyment or joy sounds
operate here is that those

f1903346-3602-456b-8807-e1b8f46b3d8a-3
00:27:47.683 --> 00:27:48.859
aspects of of.

d0d8dc5f-e8f0-4c82-802d-9912326c6dbf-0
00:27:50.070 --> 00:27:54.180
The other who stole our
enjoyment is very much um.

0118016f-9de1-4cd9-9225-7f22a48b61d8-0
00:27:55.060 --> 00:27:59.575
If you're like embroiled in a
sense of bodily affect, whether

0118016f-9de1-4cd9-9225-7f22a48b61d8-1
00:27:59.575 --> 00:28:03.873
it's because our joy sounds was
taken away, and if we only

0118016f-9de1-4cd9-9225-7f22a48b61d8-2
00:28:03.873 --> 00:28:08.461
managed to get rid of Brussels,
if you only managed to get rid

0118016f-9de1-4cd9-9225-7f22a48b61d8-3
00:28:08.461 --> 00:28:12.613
of all those migrants, then we
can restore that sense of

0118016f-9de1-4cd9-9225-7f22a48b61d8-4
00:28:12.613 --> 00:28:17.056
national pride, that sense of
bodily feeling comfortable and

0118016f-9de1-4cd9-9225-7f22a48b61d8-5
00:28:17.056 --> 00:28:18.950
this idea of togetherness.

906770a6-0edf-453a-8f25-e02b11d15150-0
00:28:19.950 --> 00:28:24.690
But because that sense of
enjoyment as very much.

8c1212a8-5fa4-4f8b-8625-214c5b196b06-0
00:28:25.830 --> 00:28:30.833
Explained by reject, but also by
other such as Yanis. Stavrakis,

8c1212a8-5fa4-4f8b-8625-214c5b196b06-1
00:28:30.833 --> 00:28:35.682
of course, is temporary. It's
there for a brief period of time

8c1212a8-5fa4-4f8b-8625-214c5b196b06-2
00:28:35.682 --> 00:28:40.454
and dissipates. It disappears.
And that, again, is one of the

8c1212a8-5fa4-4f8b-8625-214c5b196b06-3
00:28:40.454 --> 00:28:45.534
ways in which that repetition of
nationalism can be explained. By

8c1212a8-5fa4-4f8b-8625-214c5b196b06-4
00:28:45.534 --> 00:28:50.383
pointing, by pointing to that
lost sense of enjoyment which we

8c1212a8-5fa4-4f8b-8625-214c5b196b06-5
00:28:50.383 --> 00:28:52.770
can restore if only we were to.

0462aefd-23eb-4c3e-8e94-788f1d7f5f2b-0
00:28:53.820 --> 00:28:55.090
Get rid of that other.

5996958c-07d0-467a-bbd8-1eebb8e7a6e6-0
00:28:56.920 --> 00:29:00.789
But interestingly, and that's
how in a way, racism operates

5996958c-07d0-467a-bbd8-1eebb8e7a6e6-1
00:29:00.789 --> 00:29:04.530
and if you think about it
psychoanalytically and is that.

b6ce4699-6d92-42a8-98e0-d4fe522630aa-0
00:29:06.610 --> 00:29:11.026
The other is also blamed for not
only stealing our enjoyment, but

b6ce4699-6d92-42a8-98e0-d4fe522630aa-1
00:29:11.026 --> 00:29:14.640
also for enjoying themselves
secretly at our expense.

8562136b-f600-4465-b213-849735f3c08e-0
00:29:15.410 --> 00:29:19.655
And again, this is how racism
works. This is how anti-Semitism

8562136b-f600-4465-b213-849735f3c08e-1
00:29:19.655 --> 00:29:23.430
often operates in the sense of
the other is accused of.

a68d368b-36c4-4f33-a3de-d29bdcbca307-0
00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.503
And joined himself in all kinds
of perverse way, whether it's

a68d368b-36c4-4f33-a3de-d29bdcbca307-1
00:29:27.503 --> 00:29:30.754
through their food, through
their perceived imaginary sexual

a68d368b-36c4-4f33-a3de-d29bdcbca307-2
00:29:30.754 --> 00:29:34.164
affairs and so on and so forth,
or their accumulation of wealth

a68d368b-36c4-4f33-a3de-d29bdcbca307-3
00:29:34.164 --> 00:29:35.710
at our expense and and so on.

c53e6ea3-b863-4f35-a55f-4619446fcac6-0
00:29:37.300 --> 00:29:40.663
And so enjoyment is really,
really crucial, I think, to

c53e6ea3-b863-4f35-a55f-4619446fcac6-1
00:29:40.663 --> 00:29:44.566
animate the ways in which those
phantasmatic narratives operate.

c53e6ea3-b863-4f35-a55f-4619446fcac6-2
00:29:44.566 --> 00:29:48.470
And without that sense of bodily
effect, I think we're just left

c53e6ea3-b863-4f35-a55f-4619446fcac6-3
00:29:48.470 --> 00:29:52.193
with narrative and discourse,
and we can't really explain how

c53e6ea3-b863-4f35-a55f-4619446fcac6-4
00:29:52.193 --> 00:29:56.097
they appeal. And again, the idea
of expanding the repetitions of

c53e6ea3-b863-4f35-a55f-4619446fcac6-5
00:29:56.097 --> 00:29:59.219
naturism require some work, some
theorization, and.

a55d3c17-ddcc-43c5-bbf7-fdac5d16a766-0
00:30:00.410 --> 00:30:04.620
And with respect to the effects
they have on the body.

e0f096cb-d843-4cca-82f1-d3e0f8cd38d2-0
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.978
So getting to the conclusion
then, hopefully leaving plenty

e0f096cb-d843-4cca-82f1-d3e0f8cd38d2-1
00:30:12.978 --> 00:30:16.060
of time for for questions and
and discussion.

ed583e17-3ba5-443e-be39-5c9a2451546e-0
00:30:17.660 --> 00:30:20.775
What I tried to argue very, very
briefly and again doing

ed583e17-3ba5-443e-be39-5c9a2451546e-1
00:30:20.775 --> 00:30:24.273
injustice both to the very rich
scholarship out there, but also

ed583e17-3ba5-443e-be39-5c9a2451546e-2
00:30:24.273 --> 00:30:27.224
to the psychological
architecture that I've presented

ed583e17-3ba5-443e-be39-5c9a2451546e-3
00:30:27.224 --> 00:30:30.613
here. I was trying to make the
point that if we're looking at

ed583e17-3ba5-443e-be39-5c9a2451546e-4
00:30:30.613 --> 00:30:33.510
nationalism and populism,
particularly in the in the

ed583e17-3ba5-443e-be39-5c9a2451546e-5
00:30:33.510 --> 00:30:35.149
contemporary global political.

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-0
00:30:36.690 --> 00:30:39.990
And I'm using those
interchangeably and and I'm

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-1
00:30:39.990 --> 00:30:43.840
happy to explain more how I read
to if you like, or the

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-2
00:30:43.840 --> 00:30:48.171
relationship between nationalism
and populism. I was trying to

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-3
00:30:48.171 --> 00:30:52.708
argue that we can point to three
key machineries that can further

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-4
00:30:52.708 --> 00:30:56.902
explain both why nationalism and
populism are repeating once

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-5
00:30:56.902 --> 00:31:01.165
again, but also their appeal,
the ways in which they are able

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-6
00:31:01.165 --> 00:31:04.740
to interpolate and
subjectivities. So firstly I was

690e1f4e-8931-40ce-9a07-2c7aa329c2ac-7
00:31:04.740 --> 00:31:05.840
trying to offer.

f4f52a00-30b8-4039-8fad-096c130fa88c-0
00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:10.736
And I wouldn't say an anti anti
essentialist, but one that

f4f52a00-30b8-4039-8fad-096c130fa88c-1
00:31:10.736 --> 00:31:14.594
doesn't take anti essentialism
too to the to the bitter end and

f4f52a00-30b8-4039-8fad-096c130fa88c-2
00:31:14.594 --> 00:31:18.392
argue that we do need to focus
on the ontology of the subject,

f4f52a00-30b8-4039-8fad-096c130fa88c-3
00:31:18.392 --> 00:31:22.129
but also the ontology of the
object, in this case the nation,

f4f52a00-30b8-4039-8fad-096c130fa88c-4
00:31:22.129 --> 00:31:24.360
the state, sovereignty and so
forth.

7e1d3969-c0ef-4005-aeca-96259898c548-0
00:31:24.980 --> 00:31:26.460
And the argument was that.

44003a0b-899d-4447-b031-0f06048632fb-0
00:31:27.130 --> 00:31:31.216
Foundationally, if you like,
ontologically, there is a void,

44003a0b-899d-4447-b031-0f06048632fb-1
00:31:31.216 --> 00:31:35.503
there is a gap which constitute
the subject and the object, and

44003a0b-899d-4447-b031-0f06048632fb-2
00:31:35.503 --> 00:31:37.580
which therefore pushes propels.

d455e5e5-efb6-435a-a070-b622cf340b21-0
00:31:38.790 --> 00:31:43.773
The endless political, socio
political and global projects of

d455e5e5-efb6-435a-a070-b622cf340b21-1
00:31:43.773 --> 00:31:48.194
reinventing the story of of
nationalism and the state,

d455e5e5-efb6-435a-a070-b622cf340b21-2
00:31:48.194 --> 00:31:51.410
reinventing those aspects of
belonging.

bc4fd25b-e46f-40c0-93fe-44457faa1623-0
00:31:52.850 --> 00:31:55.480
I don't point into the fantasy
of.

df2275cf-a85d-421f-9196-8c13a44ba17f-0
00:31:56.180 --> 00:32:00.809
And homogeneity, that Gardnerian
ID, that nationalism is about

df2275cf-a85d-421f-9196-8c13a44ba17f-1
00:32:00.809 --> 00:32:05.218
bringing the state and the
nation together into a congruent

df2275cf-a85d-421f-9196-8c13a44ba17f-2
00:32:05.218 --> 00:32:09.627
homogeneous state. And the
argument was that it's a fantasy

df2275cf-a85d-421f-9196-8c13a44ba17f-3
00:32:09.627 --> 00:32:13.963
in the sense that it is an
impossible utopia, but it's one

df2275cf-a85d-421f-9196-8c13a44ba17f-4
00:32:13.963 --> 00:32:18.372
that sustains itself partially
at least through its inbuilt

df2275cf-a85d-421f-9196-8c13a44ba17f-5
00:32:18.372 --> 00:32:21.900
failure, the other which is
preventing us from.

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-0
00:32:23.320 --> 00:32:28.233
Achieving our promised utopian
future. And finally, I pointed

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-1
00:32:28.233 --> 00:32:32.434
to the badly and effective
aspect of nationalism and

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-2
00:32:32.434 --> 00:32:37.269
populism of that particular
fantasy of homogeneity, which is

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-3
00:32:37.269 --> 00:32:41.707
crucial to explain how
narratives of making our country

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-4
00:32:41.707 --> 00:32:46.304
great again, so to speak,
operate by offering us a way in

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-5
00:32:46.304 --> 00:32:51.218
which we can feel, albeit only
temporarily and partially, and

a26dbd4b-8759-479c-ba37-049978d3e070-6
00:32:51.218 --> 00:32:54.229
therefore seeking to feel that
again.

2d222c4d-3439-4be5-8bd2-702f4bb972a5-0
00:32:55.300 --> 00:33:00.213
Aspects of togetherness and
togetherness, which is of course

2d222c4d-3439-4be5-8bd2-702f4bb972a5-1
00:33:00.213 --> 00:33:05.369
not innocent and entails many,
many aspects of rationalisation,

2d222c4d-3439-4be5-8bd2-702f4bb972a5-2
00:33:05.369 --> 00:33:08.430
gendering, othering and and so
forth.

a7ba89df-e264-4b08-95c3-406d375ac1aa-0
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:14.013
And if I could just kind of
reflect very briefly on on word

a7ba89df-e264-4b08-95c3-406d375ac1aa-1
00:33:14.013 --> 00:33:16.040
now, what might happen now or?

704f2907-67e1-4b94-b1ad-2c744af6c169-0
00:33:17.250 --> 00:33:21.890
What can one do? Um is basically
a kind of two options or a

704f2907-67e1-4b94-b1ad-2c744af6c169-1
00:33:21.890 --> 00:33:26.607
question of an open question
also for potentially discussion

704f2907-67e1-4b94-b1ad-2c744af6c169-2
00:33:26.607 --> 00:33:28.000
and thoughts from.

f583ba33-7566-468e-9b70-90c67019077a-0
00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:29.580
From the audience.

4b754230-d246-4f16-b07c-6af3b46df805-0
00:33:30.370 --> 00:33:32.140
Is whether we try and.

55f110fd-6143-486c-b297-a248cc598df7-0
00:33:33.770 --> 00:33:38.090
Substitute the current fantasies
of nationalism with some other

55f110fd-6143-486c-b297-a248cc598df7-1
00:33:38.090 --> 00:33:40.520
form of identity or
identification.

694f7693-74ca-4945-a1e5-f5f1754a8e7b-0
00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:46.458
Do we perhaps try and watch,
Ishak has argued, traverse the

694f7693-74ca-4945-a1e5-f5f1754a8e7b-1
00:33:46.458 --> 00:33:50.397
fantasy that just say, come to
terms, so to speak, with the

694f7693-74ca-4945-a1e5-f5f1754a8e7b-2
00:33:50.397 --> 00:33:54.335
fact that at the heart of our
subjectivity, at the heart of

694f7693-74ca-4945-a1e5-f5f1754a8e7b-3
00:33:54.335 --> 00:33:58.274
the ontology of the of the
object, there is that gap, there

694f7693-74ca-4945-a1e5-f5f1754a8e7b-4
00:33:58.274 --> 00:34:02.410
is that fissure which can never
be healed, which can never be.

87726481-bfaa-4171-b58d-d0f721dd0e80-0
00:34:03.400 --> 00:34:06.850
And completed field in fixed and
so forth.

b9233081-4b56-4569-b019-0723c277da01-0
00:34:08.470 --> 00:34:13.908
Or, as potentially some have
argued, we have already moved to

b9233081-4b56-4569-b019-0723c277da01-1
00:34:13.908 --> 00:34:18.996
the to the eradication of
Fantasy 2, which is, of course,

b9233081-4b56-4569-b019-0723c277da01-2
00:34:18.996 --> 00:34:19.260
um.

9ac521c1-8884-4f3d-bfd8-d6878cbd2503-0
00:34:21.120 --> 00:34:24.874
And moved from fantasy to
Nightmare, which is why I had

9ac521c1-8884-4f3d-bfd8-d6878cbd2503-1
00:34:24.874 --> 00:34:29.165
the picture from the famous the
piano teacher movie which is it

9ac521c1-8884-4f3d-bfd8-d6878cbd2503-2
00:34:29.165 --> 00:34:29.970
talks about.

b90f1921-20f3-4e09-927c-1f8935822954-0
00:34:30.720 --> 00:34:34.978
Or by the the piano student
finds the the love letters of

b90f1921-20f3-4e09-927c-1f8935822954-1
00:34:34.978 --> 00:34:39.090
his teacher and then tries in
one of the encounters to.

d0fa0b65-e61a-47a1-938c-b4c0cf77e950-0
00:34:40.420 --> 00:34:41.780
Act on them, as it were.

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-0
00:34:42.510 --> 00:34:46.768
Sexually. And of course what
happens in in in that scene and

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-1
00:34:46.768 --> 00:34:51.167
later on in that movie, isn't
the ways in which the fantasy of

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-2
00:34:51.167 --> 00:34:55.495
the piano teacher, or in our
case the fantasy of nationalism,

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-3
00:34:55.495 --> 00:34:59.893
is materialising itself in some
kind of utopian, positive way,

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-4
00:34:59.893 --> 00:35:03.873
but actually is very much a
nightmarish. And if we think

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-5
00:35:03.873 --> 00:35:08.411
about politically and globally,
again, that move from fantasy to

426380cf-9686-46d1-a09c-736539f589a4-6
00:35:08.411 --> 00:35:12.740
nightmare might indeed include
Intel, and indeed in the past.

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-0
00:35:12.810 --> 00:35:17.712
I think it, yeah, it has in
several ways acts not only of of

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-1
00:35:17.712 --> 00:35:22.615
of exclusion, but indeed of
unfortunately happening nowadays

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-2
00:35:22.615 --> 00:35:27.759
as well of ethnic cleansing and
of course genocide. Where there

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-3
00:35:27.759 --> 00:35:32.582
is that move to completely
materialise that utopian future,

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-4
00:35:32.582 --> 00:35:37.484
that's fantasy by eradicating
that aspect of nationalism and

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-5
00:35:37.484 --> 00:35:42.066
the fantasy of producing
congruent, homogeneous national

092f7d5b-f73b-44c4-99c4-23fbfbc1f157-6
00:35:42.066 --> 00:35:42.869
societies.

af97409e-fc4c-45f1-8b6a-918adddd711b-0
00:35:43.410 --> 00:35:47.339
So I'm going to stop now,
hopefully not so long, and I'm

af97409e-fc4c-45f1-8b6a-918adddd711b-1
00:35:47.339 --> 00:35:51.820
allowing the audience to ask any
questions they want. Thank you.

0150b1d4-6266-40c3-9274-f9a563ab43af-0
00:35:58.620 --> 00:36:02.788
Thank you very much for that
Moran. I am now going to hold

0150b1d4-6266-40c3-9274-f9a563ab43af-1
00:36:02.788 --> 00:36:05.190
the recording for the
discussion.