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<title>How important actually was Pericles?</title></titleStmt>

<publicationStmt><distributor>BASE and Oxford Text Archive</distributor>


<availability><p>The British Academic Spoken English (BASE) corpus was developed at the

Universities of Warwick and Reading, under the directorship of Hilary Nesi

(Centre for English Language Teacher Education, Warwick) and Paul Thompson

(Department of Applied Linguistics, Reading), with funding from BALEAP,

EURALEX, the British Academy and the Arts and Humanities Research Board. The

original recordings are held at the Universities of Warwick and Reading, and

at the Oxford Text Archive and may be consulted by bona fide researchers

upon written application to any of the holding bodies.

The BASE corpus is freely available to researchers who agree to the

following conditions:</p>

<p>1. The recordings and transcriptions should not be modified in any


<p>2. The recordings and transcriptions should be used for research purposes

only; they should not be reproduced in teaching materials</p>

<p>3. The recordings and transcriptions should not be reproduced in full for

a wider audience/readership, although researchers are free to quote short

passages of text (up to 200 running words from any given speech event)</p>

<p>4. The corpus developers should be informed of all presentations or

publications arising from analysis of the corpus</p><p>

Researchers should acknowledge their use of the corpus using the following

form of words:

The recordings and transcriptions used in this study come from the British

Academic Spoken English (BASE) corpus, which was developed at the

Universities of Warwick and Reading under the directorship of Hilary Nesi

(Warwick) and Paul Thompson (Reading). Corpus development was assisted by

funding from the Universities of Warwick and Reading, BALEAP, EURALEX, the

British Academy and the Arts and Humanities Research Board. </p></availability>




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<item n="speechevent">Lecture</item>

<item n="acaddept">Classics</item>

<item n="acaddiv">ah</item>

<item n="partlevel">UG3</item>

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<u who="nm0007"> let me make a couple of announcements thank you <pause dur="0.5"/> has everybody all second years got a seminar <pause dur="0.3"/> pack <pause dur="0.6"/> yeah <pause dur="0.6"/> let me make a couple of announcements <pause dur="0.5"/> first of all <pause dur="0.2"/> we need to have a representative <pause dur="0.4"/> from this group for the staff-student committee <pause dur="1.5"/> which is going to meet at the end of the term you're probably used to this by now each <pause dur="0.6"/> # course has a representative <pause dur="0.4"/> to feed back views about the course <pause dur="0.4"/> or any other # things you want to tell us about <pause dur="0.5"/> to the committee <pause dur="0.9"/> so i will ask you next lecture whether there's a volunteer or <pause dur="0.2"/> you want to whether you want to coordinate or volunteer <pause dur="0.2"/> so bear that in mind it will meet in the second to last term for an hour <pause dur="0.5"/> and it's a chance to give the views of students <pause dur="0.4"/> to the department <pause dur="1.5"/> one other <pause dur="0.4"/> announcement <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> an article <pause dur="0.3"/> we <pause dur="0.2"/> we talked <pause dur="0.6"/> couple of weeks ago about <pause dur="0.2"/> the influence of Plato <pause dur="0.4"/> on Plutarch <pause dur="0.5"/> and we talked about <pause dur="0.4"/> # a little bit about his <pause dur="0.8"/> <trunc>theo</trunc> Plato's theory <pause dur="0.3"/> of great natures <pause dur="0.4"/> that is that <pause dur="0.7"/> who well who can remember <pause dur="0.4"/> what <pause dur="0.4"/> Plato said about great natures <pause dur="0.5"/> in The

Republic </u><pause dur="1.6"/> <u who="sf0008" trans="pause"> they will either lead to a lead to a really good <pause dur="0.2"/> person or a really bad person </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> fantastic yes <pause dur="0.3"/> that <pause dur="0.3"/> people with what Plato calls great natures that is <pause dur="0.4"/> great potential <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> in their in their nature <pause dur="0.6"/> and remember we said that <pause dur="1.3"/> character <pause dur="0.3"/> is your nature <pause dur="0.3"/> and <pause dur="1.0"/> and then <pause dur="0.2"/> added to it the action of your environment or education on it <pause dur="0.4"/> and Plato said people with great natures will either turn out <pause dur="0.3"/> very good <pause dur="0.6"/> or <pause dur="0.3"/> very bad <pause dur="0.4"/> depending on <pause dur="0.2"/> the environment <pause dur="0.4"/> that is brought to bear on them and in particular <pause dur="0.3"/> dependent on their <pause dur="0.3"/> education <pause dur="1.4"/> this theory <pause dur="0.3"/> is particularly important for <pause dur="0.2"/> some of Plutarch's Lives the negative <pause dur="0.4"/> lives <pause dur="0.4"/> he introduces the theory <pause dur="0.2"/> at the start of the Lives of <pause dur="0.4"/> which two people <pause dur="1.3"/> where does Plutarch talk about great natures </u><pause dur="2.0"/> <u who="sf0008" trans="pause"> Antony </u><pause dur="0.8"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> yes <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> Mark Antony <pause dur="0.4"/><event desc="student enters room" iterated="n" n="su0047"/> and hi <pause dur="0.6"/> # there's handouts there <pause dur="0.3"/> Mark Antony and the Greek paired with Mark Antony is <pause dur="0.3"/> Demetrius <pause dur="0.2"/> not one that you're likely to meet <pause dur="0.9"/> and <pause dur="0.6"/> we're also going to meet in a couple of weeks another of Plutarch's great <pause dur="0.3"/> natures <pause dur="0.3"/> and that is Alcibiades who's paired with the Roman Coriolanus <pause dur="1.6"/>

now <pause dur="0.3"/> i've written an article <pause dur="0.5"/> on all of this which has just appeared and which i'm going to put in the seminar library and it's also <pause dur="0.4"/> in the library now <pause dur="0.3"/> it's called <pause dur="0.3"/> Plutarch Plato and Great Natures <pause dur="0.6"/> and if you type into the computer my name <pause dur="0.5"/> you'll find it it'll be in the seminar <pause dur="0.2"/> library yes </u><u who="sf0009" trans="overlap"> when is your book available in the library </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> i don't know # i've ordered it <pause dur="0.2"/> and they don't seem to have it # </u><u who="sf0010" trans="overlap"> it says in bindings on the <pause dur="0.3"/> in binding </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> really </u><u who="sf0010" trans="latching"> yeah </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> well if you go in and # keep asking them for it maybe they'll do it quickly but <pause dur="0.5"/> it takes them a long time unfortunately </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sf0011" trans="pause"> is the box <pause dur="0.3"/> is there a box-file in there <pause dur="0.6"/> # </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> there <trunc>sh</trunc> yeah there's a box-file in the seminar room </u><pause dur="0.8"/> <u who="sf0012" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> has anybody <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>ha</trunc> have you <trunc>f</trunc> has somebody found it </u><u who="sf0013" trans="latching"> yeah </u><u who="sf0014" trans="overlap"> i don't know </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> so far </u><u who="sf0014" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="3 secs"/></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> okay but it is <trunc>y</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> it is there is it <pause dur="0.3"/> okay it is in there if you ask the secretary <pause dur="0.5"/> # he will point it out to you <pause dur="1.5"/> are there any questions before we <pause dur="1.0"/> go into this lecture <pause dur="3.4"/> okay <pause dur="0.9"/> # well last <pause dur="0.5"/> time <pause dur="0.3"/> we <pause dur="1.4"/> did a brief run-through of

what most people say what the general <pause dur="0.4"/> approach is <pause dur="0.3"/> to the life of Pericles the Athenian <pause dur="0.3"/> statesman <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles and he's going to be the subject <pause dur="0.3"/> of our thoughts for the next two lectures this lecture and next lecture <pause dur="0.4"/> and the seminar <pause dur="0.8"/> and we did <pause dur="0.2"/> a <pause dur="0.4"/> a brief <pause dur="0.2"/> uncontroversial run-through <pause dur="0.3"/> of what you'll find written about Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> in history books <pause dur="0.8"/> and in this lecture <pause dur="0.2"/> we're going to take that picture apart <pause dur="0.2"/> a bit and this lecture is entitled <pause dur="0.4"/> how important <pause dur="0.4"/> actually <pause dur="0.3"/> was Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> you'll gather from the very fact we're having a lecture on this that <pause dur="0.3"/> we're going to be arguing that the importance of Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> who's <pause dur="0.3"/> presented as <pause dur="0.2"/> the figure <pause dur="0.2"/> of fifth century Athenian democracy <pause dur="0.5"/> in all the books you read <pause dur="0.3"/> we're going to be arguing that Pericles was actually not <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="0.4"/> important <pause dur="0.6"/> and that the importance of Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> has been exaggerated <pause dur="0.3"/> by one person <pause dur="0.4"/> the historian <pause dur="0.2"/> Thucydides <pause dur="1.0"/> and that this exaggeration <pause dur="0.3"/> has got into the <pause dur="0.4"/> # literary and historical tradition ever since until our lecture now <pause dur="0.3"/>

where we're going to challenge it <pause dur="0.7"/> so <pause dur="1.6"/> how important was Pericles <pause dur="0.9"/> Pericles tends to be seen <pause dur="0.3"/> as <pause dur="0.3"/> the representative figure the embodiment <pause dur="0.4"/> of <pause dur="0.3"/> Athenian <pause dur="0.3"/> democracy <pause dur="2.8"/> you can find <pause dur="0.7"/> studies of Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> # in the history books we talked about last time that are on the handout <pause dur="2.8"/> this <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="1.3"/> exaggeration this this sense of Pericles as the <pause dur="0.3"/> most important figure <pause dur="0.3"/> starts off in the historian Thucydides <pause dur="0.5"/> who of course is contemporary <pause dur="0.4"/> with Pericles <pause dur="1.2"/> can anyone <pause dur="0.7"/> tell us or guess <pause dur="0.3"/> what sort of a a family <pause dur="0.2"/> or what sort of political background <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides came from </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="sf0015" trans="pause"> aristocrat </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> aristocrat <pause dur="0.2"/> right <pause dur="0.2"/> all <pause dur="0.3"/> ancient writers pretty much are going to be aristocratic <pause dur="0.4"/> to have the time <pause dur="0.3"/> and the leisure to write you are by definition <pause dur="0.3"/> rich <pause dur="0.2"/> which <pause dur="0.4"/> in classical Athens means <pause dur="0.5"/> an aristocrat you own lots of land <pause dur="0.6"/> and what happened to Thucydides what big event <pause dur="0.5"/> allowed him to write the History </u><u who="sf0016" trans="latching"> was he exiled </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> he was exiled he was exiled by <pause dur="0.3"/> the Athenian democracy <pause dur="0.5"/> does anyone know why he was exiled </u><pause dur="1.1"/> <u who="sf0017" trans="pause"> <unclear>he was on some sort of campaign and he failed</unclear></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> yeah <pause dur="0.5"/> that

exactly <pause dur="0.3"/> he was on campaign <pause dur="0.4"/> and failed he failed <pause dur="0.3"/> to save the city of Amphipolis <pause dur="0.3"/> from the Spartans <pause dur="0.3"/> in four-two-five <pause dur="0.4"/> B-C and it was taken by Sparta <pause dur="1.4"/><kinesic desc="writes on board" iterated="y" dur="8"/> and he actually writes about <pause dur="0.7"/> about this in his History <pause dur="0.4"/> and just sort of <pause dur="0.7"/> when he's narrating the fall of Amphipolis he says that <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>an an Athenian squadron from the island of Thasos <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>al</trunc> <pause dur="0.5"/> commanded by Thucydides</reading> it doesn't say commanded by me commanded by Thucydides <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>just failed to relieve the city</reading> <pause dur="0.7"/> and it gives the impression a poor guy <pause dur="0.4"/> # you know he did his best and # <trunc>i</trunc> <trunc>i</trunc> it didn't <pause dur="0.4"/> didn't quite get there in time of course we don't know whether that's quite true <pause dur="0.4"/> # he was exiled by the government in other words the people <pause dur="0.4"/> in Athens <pause dur="0.2"/> so <pause dur="0.8"/> these two facts the fact that he's an aristocrat and the fact that he's <pause dur="0.8"/> he suffered at the hands of the democracy <pause dur="0.4"/> would <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> lead us to expect <pause dur="0.3"/> that he would be somebody who had a rather negative might have a rather negative view <pause dur="0.4"/> of <pause dur="0.2"/> democratic power <pause dur="0.4"/> in Athens <pause dur="0.4"/>

and might be rather <pause dur="0.2"/> well <pause dur="0.2"/> disposed towards <pause dur="0.4"/> aristocratic leaders <pause dur="0.5"/> # rather than <pause dur="0.4"/> # the rabble as he would see it of Athenian politics <pause dur="0.4"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> that's <pause dur="0.2"/> one <pause dur="0.3"/> possibility of why Pericles gets <pause dur="0.2"/> such a good write-up <pause dur="0.4"/> from <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides they share the same political aristocratic <pause dur="0.4"/> background <pause dur="3.2"/> what actually though does <pause dur="0.4"/> Thucydides say about Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> what events does Thucydides say Pericles was involved in <pause dur="0.5"/> well if you go through <pause dur="0.5"/> if you read <pause dur="0.2"/> Thucydides' History you get an impression <pause dur="0.4"/> of the overwhelming greatness and importance <pause dur="0.5"/> of Pericles the authority of Pericles <pause dur="1.2"/> where does that sense of Pericles' importance come from <pause dur="0.8"/> his speeches <pause dur="0.3"/> he gets a lot of speeches in the first two books of Thucydides <pause dur="0.6"/> a lot of times when the narrative stops <pause dur="0.4"/> Pericles comes on the stage <pause dur="0.3"/> and Thucydides gives us <pause dur="0.2"/> as it were a verbatim report <pause dur="0.4"/> of what Pericles said <pause dur="0.6"/> to the Athenian democracy <pause dur="0.8"/> probably not actually his original words probably <pause dur="0.5"/> a # # <pause dur="0.5"/> a write-up by Thucydides a fictionalized account <pause dur="0.4"/> but <pause dur="0.3"/> this gives us the

impression of of that Pericles was the most important statesman we get words <pause dur="0.5"/> put into his mouth <pause dur="0.3"/> nobody else <pause dur="0.2"/> gets <pause dur="0.5"/> so many speeches <pause dur="0.5"/> so it gives the impression of this important person <pause dur="1.3"/> we also get occasional <pause dur="0.5"/> paragraphs of direct praise we're going to be looking at one of these <pause dur="0.4"/> # later on where <pause dur="0.6"/> <trunc>per</trunc> where Thucydides says <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>Pericles was the best <pause dur="0.2"/> leader of the time <pause dur="0.3"/> and after his death <pause dur="0.2"/> Athens went downhill</reading> <pause dur="4.2"/> if we actually look however at events Thucydides says Pericles was involved in <pause dur="0.9"/> # there are very few <pause dur="0.2"/> and we'll come to that <pause dur="0.2"/> in a moment <pause dur="0.5"/> there are actually very few events Thucydides <pause dur="0.4"/> himself can pin <pause dur="0.3"/> on Pericles for all the praise <pause dur="0.4"/> for all the speeches he gets <pause dur="0.4"/> there aren't that many things Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> is actually said to have done <pause dur="2.6"/> Thucydides <pause dur="2.0"/> sets the agenda <pause dur="0.3"/> then <pause dur="0.3"/> for how <pause dur="0.8"/> Pericles and fifth century Athens <pause dur="0.3"/> would be seen <pause dur="0.3"/> in later generations <pause dur="2.7"/> including in <pause dur="0.2"/> in the history books that you'll look at so the fifth century for Thucydides <pause dur="0.3"/> is <pause dur="0.5"/> the Persian Wars <pause dur="0.8"/> four-ninety four-eighty <pause dur="0.7"/> then <pause dur="0.3"/>

the fifty year period <pause dur="0.3"/> between the Persian Wars and the Peloponnesian War we've talked about <pause dur="0.5"/> Pentekontaetia <pause dur="1.1"/> then the Peloponnesian War <pause dur="0.6"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> there's <pause dur="1.4"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> Thucydides' view of the fifth century <pause dur="0.6"/> we've had cause already to question <pause dur="0.4"/> that how have we questioned <pause dur="1.0"/> that how have we said that view of the fifth century is <pause dur="0.6"/> really Thucydides' construction what <pause dur="2.4"/> what </u><u who="sf0018" trans="overlap"> everybody else <pause dur="0.2"/> thought of it as <pause dur="0.3"/> three separate words <gap reason="inaudible" extent="3 secs"/> </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> yeah that's # this <pause dur="0.7"/> exactly <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.5"/> what you'll read in lots of history books is <pause dur="0.2"/> exactly what <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides said <pause dur="0.3"/> that you get <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="1.8"/><kinesic desc="writes on board" iterated="y" dur="18"/> Persian War <pause dur="0.3"/> then this fifty year period of Athens growing power <pause dur="0.4"/> and then <pause dur="0.3"/> the Peloponnesian War and it's basically the end of the fifth century four-o-four <pause dur="2.8"/>

# <pause dur="0.8"/> we've said well actually the Peloponnesian War you could <pause dur="0.7"/> this is an artificial construct of Thucydides' <pause dur="0.3"/> to say the Peloponnesian War is four-three-one to four-o-four <pause dur="0.4"/> the they're fighting the Spartans and their allies as far back as <kinesic desc="writes on board" iterated="y" dur="1"/> four-six-one <pause dur="0.8"/> this is there are lots of other ways of presenting Athenian history <pause dur="0.3"/> similarly <pause dur="0.2"/> well Persian Wars <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> peace isn't made with Persia until four-four-six <pause dur="0.9"/><kinesic desc="writes on board" iterated="y" dur="2"/> a peace treaty is signed with <pause dur="0.5"/> # <trunc>a</trunc> between Athens and Persia <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> already we're seeing that Thucydides constructs history <pause dur="0.7"/> in his way it's not wrong but it's <pause dur="0.4"/> just one way of <pause dur="0.4"/> setting out the events <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> another part of Thucydides' construction <pause dur="0.4"/> of the fifth century <pause dur="0.3"/> is <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles <pause dur="1.2"/> as the leader of good <pause dur="0.5"/> moderate <pause dur="0.2"/> democracy <pause dur="0.2"/> when Pericles is in power <pause dur="0.4"/> democracy is basically good <pause dur="0.5"/> because there's an aristocrat in power at the head of it <pause dur="0.4"/> and after Pericles' death <pause dur="0.4"/> it goes

downhill <pause dur="1.0"/> so this is how Thucydides presents it <pause dur="0.6"/> good democracy <pause dur="0.4"/> Pericles and before Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> radical <pause dur="0.3"/> democracy in other words over the top <pause dur="0.2"/> democracy <pause dur="0.5"/> after Pericles' death <pause dur="2.3"/> why <pause dur="0.8"/> is he <pause dur="0.2"/> so fond of Pericles why does he give this such a positive <pause dur="0.4"/> picture <pause dur="0.3"/> of Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> as we've <pause dur="0.3"/> we talked about at the start <pause dur="0.3"/> both Pericles and Thucydides are aristocrats <pause dur="0.4"/> Thucydides opposed to the developed democracy <pause dur="1.0"/> # we know of <pause dur="1.8"/> <trunc>i</trunc> it seems from reading Thucydides' treatment of the oligarchic coups <pause dur="0.4"/> in the Peloponnesian War <pause dur="0.3"/> that he approved of <pause dur="0.2"/> these right wing regimes he gives them quite good <pause dur="0.4"/> write-ups these times when democracy's overthrown <pause dur="0.4"/> briefly <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="1.3"/> therefore he's <pause dur="0.7"/> # emotionally inclined <pause dur="0.5"/> to <pause dur="0.5"/> be in favour of <pause dur="0.4"/> an aristocratic leader <pause dur="0.5"/> in the democracy and before the democracy became more <pause dur="0.2"/> democratic before it really took off <pause dur="0.4"/> towards the end of the fifth century <pause dur="3.4"/> this <pause dur="0.2"/> picture <pause dur="0.2"/> has been influential <pause dur="0.3"/> then <pause dur="0.3"/> for later <pause dur="0.4"/> classicists this picture <pause dur="0.4"/> from Thucydides <pause dur="1.2"/> has been influential in later classicists in

particular <pause dur="0.5"/> the <pause dur="0.7"/> classicists of the ancient world like Plutarch <pause dur="0.2"/> in other words people living centuries later <pause dur="0.4"/> looking back and admiring <pause dur="0.3"/> the classical world and thinking that everything from the classical <pause dur="0.5"/> world in other words <pause dur="0.3"/> the days of Athenian greatness and democracy <pause dur="0.6"/> was best <pause dur="0.8"/> <trunc>ad</trunc> admiring that world <pause dur="0.5"/> Plutarch <pause dur="1.9"/> having read Thucydides <pause dur="0.3"/> places Pericles at the high point of Athenian democracy <pause dur="0.4"/> and writes as we'll see next week <pause dur="0.3"/> a very very positive <pause dur="0.4"/> account <pause dur="0.3"/> of Pericles <pause dur="1.2"/> there's long sections in Plutarch's Life of <pause dur="0.4"/> admiration for what he calls <pause dur="0.6"/> # Pericles' <pause dur="0.5"/> aristocratic <pause dur="0.2"/> government <pause dur="0.8"/> now you can immediately see <pause dur="0.3"/> that <pause dur="0.3"/> is a contradiction in terms historically speaking why <pause dur="0.4"/> why <trunc>i</trunc> is that a contradiction in terms <pause dur="0.5"/> aristocratic government <pause dur="0.4"/> of Athenian <pause dur="0.5"/> democracy </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sf0019" trans="pause"> <unclear>because it was a democracy</unclear> </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> it was a democracy <pause dur="0.2"/> that's right it was a democracy <pause dur="0.5"/> # so to talk of it as an aristocratic <pause dur="0.4"/> government <pause dur="0.5"/> is both <pause dur="0.3"/> incorrect historically speaking but also reveals <pause dur="0.6"/> what's going on in the minds of someone like

Plutarch that <pause dur="0.6"/> democracy is bad <pause dur="0.7"/> democracy where the rabble have power is bad <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="0.5"/> # but Thucydides admires Pericles therefore <pause dur="0.4"/> it must have been something different it must have been although it was <pause dur="0.5"/> in name a democracy <pause dur="0.5"/> it was really <pause dur="0.5"/> led by aristocrats <pause dur="3.0"/> Plutarch <pause dur="0.4"/> like Thucydides puts the opponent <pause dur="0.3"/> of Pericles Cleon <pause dur="0.4"/> as <pause dur="0.2"/> a demagogue <pause dur="0.8"/> as something totally different from what Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> is what Pericles was doing <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles the aristocratic leader <pause dur="1.4"/> Cleon <pause dur="0.3"/> his opponent <pause dur="0.4"/> a <pause dur="0.2"/> demagogue in other words a rabble-<pause dur="0.4"/>rouser <pause dur="3.8"/> Plutarch <pause dur="0.7"/> whose <pause dur="0.3"/> takes on Thucydides' picture of admiration <pause dur="0.4"/> of <pause dur="0.5"/> # Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> places Pericles at the centre of an intellectual movement <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> of his time and associates him <pause dur="0.4"/> with <pause dur="0.3"/> people like <pause dur="0.3"/> Anaxagoras <pause dur="0.4"/> an early philosopher <pause dur="0.2"/> pre-Socratic philosopher <pause dur="0.4"/> Pheidias <pause dur="0.5"/> who's responsible for <pause dur="0.4"/> the statue of Athena in the Parthenon <pause dur="1.7"/> # <pause dur="1.1"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> other various intellectual figures <pause dur="1.8"/> contemporary sources don't in fact link Pericles with <pause dur="0.6"/> # hardly any of these figures <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> why <pause dur="0.2"/> however from our knowledge of Plutarch would you

# expect him to <trunc>l</trunc> to link <pause dur="0.4"/> someone he wants to praise <pause dur="0.4"/> with <pause dur="0.4"/> intellectual figures <pause dur="2.0"/> why does this make sense to us why don't why don't we need <pause dur="0.4"/> to look for sources for this we can just actually say <pause dur="0.3"/> well this is what we'd expect Plutarch to say </u><pause dur="0.9"/> <u who="sf0020" trans="pause"> trying to make him good by association </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> he's trying to make him good <pause dur="0.3"/> by association quite right <pause dur="0.2"/> and what's he associating him with <pause dur="0.7"/> what's <pause dur="0.9"/> what's the key point here about all these figures or <trunc>wh</trunc> what's Plutarch <pause dur="0.4"/> particularly interested in <pause dur="0.2"/> if he wants to <pause dur="0.6"/> praise somebody </u><pause dur="3.6"/> <u who="sf0021" trans="pause"> virtue </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> virtue yes and on what is virtue dependent </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sf0022" trans="overlap"> education </u><u who="ss" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible, multiple speakers" extent="1 sec"/></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> education exactly very good <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> we expect <pause dur="0.2"/> someone <pause dur="0.2"/> good <pause dur="0.2"/> for Plutarch to be associated with intellectual figures to have had a good <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> education to be interested in artistic <pause dur="0.5"/> pursuits <pause dur="1.0"/> and that's what we get <pause dur="0.3"/> there's not so much evidence <pause dur="1.1"/> so Plutarch's presentation of Pericles which we'll look at in much more detail next time <pause dur="0.7"/> influenced modelled on <pause dur="0.2"/> Thucydides <pause dur="2.7"/> that <pause dur="0.3"/> presentation then

comes into <pause dur="0.3"/> the modern world <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> when <pause dur="0.2"/> in the nineteenth century <pause dur="0.3"/> historians started looking <pause dur="0.2"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> in earnest at Ancient Greece <pause dur="0.4"/> people like <pause dur="0.3"/> # George Grote who wrote one of the early <pause dur="0.8"/> histories of Greece <pause dur="0.4"/> # were impressed <pause dur="0.2"/> by Pericles in the same way <pause dur="0.5"/> and <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> one can see why <pause dur="0.3"/> the presentation of Pericles by Thucydides appealed <pause dur="0.4"/> to these liberals of the nineteenth century <pause dur="0.3"/> because <pause dur="0.4"/> he wasn't <pause dur="0.5"/> a a monarch <pause dur="0.6"/> he wasn't # somebody a a kind of ruler <pause dur="0.4"/> that nineteenth century liberals would be opposed to he wasn't a monarch an emperor <pause dur="0.5"/> he was <pause dur="0.8"/> # in a a a state with a broader political base <pause dur="0.4"/> but <pause dur="0.3"/> he opposed <pause dur="0.4"/> according to Thucydides <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="1.2"/> the <trunc>m</trunc> the masses the rabble he wasn't a demagogue <pause dur="0.5"/> he was an <trunc>en</trunc> an enlightened leader <pause dur="0.3"/> controlling the masses in their own for their own good <pause dur="1.0"/> so <pause dur="0.7"/> Pericles gets a very good press <pause dur="0.3"/> from <pause dur="1.2"/> # <pause dur="0.9"/> intellectuals <pause dur="0.5"/> powerful <pause dur="0.2"/> people of the nineteenth century who <trunc>ha</trunc> who saw themselves as a bit like <pause dur="0.4"/> Thucydides' Pericles someone who could <pause dur="0.6"/> who was <pause dur="0.3"/> working in a kind of democracy <pause dur="0.3"/> but <pause dur="0.5"/> keeping the

people <pause dur="0.3"/> in their place <pause dur="0.2"/> a democracy where the people respected their leaders <pause dur="0.4"/> and stayed in their place <pause dur="3.8"/> we've looked <pause dur="0.3"/> then <pause dur="0.3"/> at <pause dur="0.4"/> Thucydides' picture of Pericles <pause dur="0.8"/> and we've looked at the influence of that picture <pause dur="1.1"/> we've looked at the influence on <pause dur="0.2"/> Plutarch and later <pause dur="0.6"/> ancient writers and the influence on the modern <pause dur="0.5"/> on modernish <pause dur="0.3"/> # writers and through into <pause dur="0.5"/> the twentieth and twenty-first century <pause dur="3.9"/> we now go on to ask the question well what evidence is there <pause dur="0.4"/> actually <pause dur="0.3"/> for <pause dur="0.4"/> Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> what <pause dur="0.2"/> what evidence is there <pause dur="0.3"/> for <pause dur="0.2"/> him being considered important <pause dur="0.4"/> in his own day <pause dur="4.4"/> well <pause dur="0.7"/> if we look at Thucydides what Thucydides actually associates Pericles with what actions <pause dur="0.4"/> Thucydides says Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> did <pause dur="0.8"/> we see that there's very little concrete <pause dur="1.0"/> # that <pause dur="0.2"/> Pericles is associated with <pause dur="0.7"/> lots of speeches in Pericles' mouth lots of praise of <pause dur="0.3"/> what a great leader Pericles was <pause dur="0.4"/> but very little <pause dur="0.5"/> to actually put down to his agency <pause dur="0.4"/> so i've put down on the handout <pause dur="0.4"/> the list of what <pause dur="0.4"/> his great <pause dur="0.8"/> admirer <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides actually says

about Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> well <pause dur="0.3"/> he mentions him as commanding a fleet briefly <pause dur="0.4"/> on campaign in the four-fifties <pause dur="0.3"/> okay he was a he was a general one of ten generals <pause dur="0.5"/> in the four-fifties <pause dur="1.2"/> he mentions him <pause dur="0.3"/> as on campaign suppressing revolts <pause dur="0.4"/> in <pause dur="0.4"/> islands revolting from the Athenian empire <pause dur="0.4"/> in <pause dur="0.2"/> the four-forties Euboia <pause dur="0.4"/> and Samos so again <pause dur="0.3"/> a general <pause dur="0.2"/> of which there were ten <pause dur="0.2"/> at any one time <pause dur="3.0"/> he <pause dur="2.1"/> has him <pause dur="0.4"/> # involved in <pause dur="0.3"/> the <pause dur="0.2"/> negotiations and the decision about whether to go to war with Sparta <pause dur="0.3"/> in four-three-one <pause dur="1.0"/> and that seems to be <pause dur="0.2"/> there were mentions in comic poets of this as well of <pause dur="0.6"/> the fact that <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> perhaps encouraged Athens to go to war for private reasons this kind of thing <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> that seems to be something Pericles is <trunc>ac</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> actually associated with <pause dur="0.5"/> and we get him dying of plague <pause dur="0.2"/> in four-two-nine <pause dur="0.7"/> so this is what <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.7"/> the concrete <pause dur="0.3"/> events <pause dur="0.5"/> Thucydides actually <pause dur="0.3"/> # gives to Pericles <pause dur="1.5"/> we only <pause dur="0.9"/> get the <trunc>impr</trunc> we only get <pause dur="0.4"/> # evidence there for him <trunc>ac</trunc> actually at the centre of power <pause dur="0.6"/> making speeches in the Assembly <pause dur="0.3"/> having any part in <pause dur="0.3"/> decisions as opposed to being a general for a few years before <pause dur="0.6"/> and at the start of the Peloponnesian War <pause dur="1.7"/>

what about in the next century what about as people <pause dur="0.4"/> as <pause dur="0.3"/> orators <pause dur="0.3"/> looked back on the fifth century <pause dur="0.7"/> in the fourth from the fourth century <pause dur="1.0"/> what did they say about Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> well the really <trunc>s</trunc> this is the the really surprising <pause dur="0.2"/> fact <pause dur="0.3"/> but if you go through all the hundreds of speeches <pause dur="0.4"/> made by Athenian orators <pause dur="0.3"/> in the fourth century <pause dur="0.7"/> in a lot of which they look back to the fifth century and say to their audience <pause dur="0.5"/> we should stand up to Macedonia <pause dur="0.3"/> now <pause dur="0.3"/> because we're the people who stood up to the Persians we're the people who stood up to the Spartans <pause dur="0.3"/> and you've got to show yourselves worthy of your great ancestors <pause dur="0.6"/> when <pause dur="0.4"/> fourth century <pause dur="0.3"/> speakers <pause dur="0.2"/> make this kind of appeal to the past <pause dur="0.4"/> to the <pause dur="0.2"/> to the glories of the past <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles is hardly ever <pause dur="0.5"/> mentioned <pause dur="1.0"/> lots of other leaders of the fifth century Themistocles Cimon <pause dur="0.4"/> Aristides <pause dur="0.4"/> other people <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> that you could think

of are mentioned lots <pause dur="0.3"/> we must <pause dur="0.3"/> do what Themistocles did against the Persians we must stand up for our rights <pause dur="0.4"/> Pericles almost <pause dur="0.2"/> never <pause dur="1.0"/> so from the point of view of fourth century democratic thinkers Pericles is not <pause dur="0.4"/> at all <pause dur="0.5"/> important <pause dur="2.0"/> can anyone think of a a sociological reason <pause dur="0.6"/> in other words a reason in terms of <pause dur="0.6"/> who <pause dur="0.7"/> was going to be the audience for these speeches <pause dur="0.6"/> of why Pericles might be not so important there <pause dur="0.4"/> in speeches </u><u who="sf0023" trans="overlap"> <unclear>could be the fourth century leaders were less</unclear> <trunc>a</trunc> <unclear>aristocratic than</unclear> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="3 secs"/></u><pause dur="0.8"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> yes it's that # <pause dur="0.3"/> fourth <trunc>s</trunc> fourth century leaders of the democracy in general are less aristocratic <pause dur="0.2"/> that's quite right <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> also who are you speaking to if you make a speech in the Assembly <pause dur="2.2"/> who make up the majority <pause dur="1.7"/> it's not aristocrats is it </u><u who="sf0024" trans="overlap"> no </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> it must be <pause dur="2.5"/> did i hear </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sm0025" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="2 secs"/></u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> # you're thinking of the Roman Assemblies <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> Athenian <pause dur="0.3"/> democratic Assemblies <pause dur="0.4"/> # who goes to the Assembly in ancient Athens </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sf0026" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> citizens </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> everybody <pause dur="0.4"/> everybody <pause dur="0.8"/> # so the majority are the poor <pause dur="1.0"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> if you're making <trunc>y</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>a</trunc> an audience for a speech <pause dur="0.7"/> is

likely to represent much more a cross section of the Athenian population <pause dur="0.4"/> than the readership of <pause dur="0.3"/> a history <pause dur="0.4"/> like Thucydides' <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="1.2"/> when you get speeches <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="0.6"/> for <pause dur="0.2"/> delivery before a democratic audience made up of a cross section of the people Pericles is hardly mentioned <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> this reinforces our our <pause dur="0.3"/> view that A he wasn't so important as Thucydides makes out <pause dur="0.3"/> and B <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides is writing for an aristocratic <pause dur="0.4"/> audience from an aristocratic standpoint <pause dur="2.5"/> even <pause dur="2.2"/> centuries later <pause dur="0.2"/> even about the time Plutarch was writing <pause dur="0.4"/> it's quite possible <pause dur="0.3"/> to go through the great men of the Athenian past <pause dur="0.4"/> and not mention Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.6"/> Pausanias <pause dur="0.4"/> from the second century A-D <pause dur="0.3"/> who knows <pause dur="0.2"/> what Pausanias did or who Pausanias was </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sm0025" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/><pause dur="1.4"/> <unclear>wrote a book about different places in Greece</unclear> </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> yes <pause dur="0.3"/> wrote a book about places in Greece <pause dur="0.2"/> a kind of guidebook <pause dur="0.3"/> to <pause dur="0.2"/> the art of Greece <pause dur="0.7"/> in the second century A-D so designed for <pause dur="0.4"/> # an audience <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> of <pause dur="0.5"/> # aristocratic Greeks or Roman travellers coming to Greece <pause dur="0.3"/> and it mentions the statues you can see the temples

this kind of thing as you go region by region around Greece <pause dur="0.6"/> and <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="1.3"/> there's one particular passage <pause dur="0.3"/> where <pause dur="0.2"/> he <pause dur="0.3"/> goes through the great men of the Greek past <pause dur="1.1"/> # who've done great deeds in Greek history <pause dur="0.3"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> he mentions lots of people <pause dur="0.4"/> Miltiades <pause dur="0.2"/> who fought at the battle of Marathon <pause dur="0.4"/> Themistocles <pause dur="0.2"/> who also fought against the Persians <pause dur="0.4"/> Cimon <pause dur="1.2"/> who fought against the Persians <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> but not <pause dur="0.4"/> Pericles <pause dur="1.5"/> so <pause dur="2.2"/> we're getting <pause dur="0.5"/> here then a corrective <pause dur="0.2"/> to our picture <pause dur="0.4"/> that we get from Thucydides of Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> as of greatest <pause dur="0.4"/> importance <pause dur="2.5"/> we're going to spend the next <pause dur="0.2"/> few minutes looking at some passages from these sources just to get a feel for what we're actually talking about <pause dur="0.6"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> we're <pause dur="0.2"/> going to start by looking at <pause dur="0.3"/> some passages from Thucydides where we see <pause dur="0.3"/> this praise of Pericles which is so influential later <pause dur="0.7"/> and we'll also have a a quick look at <pause dur="0.4"/> what Aristotle said about Pericles under the influence of Thucydides <pause dur="1.6"/> so if we turn to <pause dur="0.4"/> # our <pause dur="2.7"/> handout <pause dur="1.0"/> now i noticed that for some reason the <pause dur="0.4"/> # when this was

photocopied <pause dur="0.4"/> one page was copied twice <pause dur="0.4"/> so the second page of your handout <pause dur="0.6"/> # the one <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="1.3"/> not the not the first one which says <pause dur="0.3"/> personalities one-eleven <pause dur="0.4"/> but <pause dur="0.7"/> the next one <pause dur="0.5"/> which has in the middle Aristotle Constitution of Athens <pause dur="0.4"/> twenty-seven to twenty-eight <pause dur="0.3"/> that's repeated <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> a little bit further on <pause dur="0.2"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> that one you want to <pause dur="0.2"/> draw a line through <pause dur="0.4"/> because it upsets the order of the passages <pause dur="0.5"/> is everybody with us <pause dur="0.3"/> the <trunc>se</trunc> so the second pages of sources </u><u who="sf0026" trans="overlap"> that </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> the whole thing the whole side </u><u who="sf0027" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> like that </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> so <pause dur="0.3"/> both columns </u><u who="sm0028" trans="overlap"> so <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> back page just not needed then </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> # <pause dur="0.3"/> the back page is needed <pause dur="0.4"/> it's the second page </u><u who="sf0029" trans="overlap"> no </u><u who="sm0030" trans="overlap"> there's nothing on the back </u><u who="sf0029" trans="overlap"> it's just the yeah it's the same </u><u who="sf0031" trans="overlap"> yeah it's the same </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> it's the same it's come out twice </u><u who="sf0032" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="2 secs"/> </u><u who="sm0033" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> so <pause dur="0.8"/> no no not the back page <pause dur="0.3"/> keep the back </u><u who="sf0034" trans="overlap"> that <pause dur="0.7"/> just that page and then that page and then that page </u><pause dur="1.1"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> yes </u><u who="sf0034" trans="overlap"> that one then that one then that one </u><u who="sf0035" trans="overlap"> it goes <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> exactly </u><u who="sf0036" trans="latching"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="2 secs"/></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> there's four pages <pause dur="0.5"/> and we're missing out the second </u><u who="sf0037" trans="overlap"> i've only got <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> which is the same as the last but it's important to miss out the

second not the last because it's the order <pause dur="0.6"/> is correct <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> cross it out now and then we won't be confused it took me a while <pause dur="0.3"/> of confusion to work out <pause dur="0.4"/> what had happened <pause dur="1.1"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> what we have <pause dur="0.5"/> then <pause dur="0.4"/> is <pause dur="0.7"/> printed out here is a speech <pause dur="1.0"/> put into Pericles' words into Pericles' mouth <pause dur="0.4"/> by Thucydides <pause dur="0.4"/> from his History <pause dur="0.4"/> and it's <pause dur="0.7"/> the last speech that Pericles gets in Thucydides' History <pause dur="0.7"/> and it's <pause dur="0.2"/> advice about how they should fight the war <pause dur="2.1"/> can anyone tell us what <pause dur="0.5"/> Pericles' advice <pause dur="0.4"/> was about the war <pause dur="1.6"/> how they should fight the Peloponnesian War </u><pause dur="1.2"/> <u who="sm0038" trans="pause"> stay inside the city </u><pause dur="1.0"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> to stay inside the city yes <pause dur="0.4"/> and </u><u who="sm0039" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> not to <pause dur="0.3"/> come out <gap reason="inaudible" extent="2 secs"/></u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> not <pause dur="0.3"/> that's right not </u><u who="sf0040" trans="overlap"> use the fleet </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> and use the fleet that's right those are the two elements so <pause dur="0.4"/> don't go out and fight them on land <pause dur="0.4"/> # we've got our fleet we can supply ourselves by sea <pause dur="0.3"/> and use the fleet <pause dur="0.5"/> to # attack them on their coasts <pause dur="0.2"/> and to keep the empire <pause dur="0.6"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> this speech <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>l</trunc> lays out all <pause dur="0.2"/> all of this in great detail <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> here's an example of <pause dur="0.4"/> # the impression Thucydides

gives us of <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles' great importance <pause dur="0.4"/> and wisdom <pause dur="1.2"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> giving this <pause dur="0.3"/> these # this advice for the war <pause dur="0.4"/> as we've noted there's nothing actually <pause dur="0.3"/> concrete here of <pause dur="0.4"/> of <pause dur="0.2"/> things Pericles did this is <pause dur="1.4"/> words <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="3.0"/> at the end of that speech <pause dur="0.3"/> so we're missing out <pause dur="0.3"/> the page where <pause dur="0.3"/> i told you to miss out <pause dur="0.4"/> we come <pause dur="0.3"/> to <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides' <pause dur="0.5"/> final judgement on Pericles <pause dur="1.2"/> and this is <pause dur="0.2"/> one of the most important passages of Thucydides' whole History and one that <pause dur="0.3"/> you should root in your mind <pause dur="0.4"/> as being important <pause dur="0.5"/> for Thucydides' view of the Peloponnesian War <pause dur="0.5"/> and for Pericles and for Alcibiades <pause dur="0.5"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> this is the <pause dur="0.2"/> last <pause dur="0.6"/> # paragraph <pause dur="1.6"/> # on here so left hand column <pause dur="0.8"/> the last paragraph <pause dur="0.5"/> in this way Pericles attempted to stop the Athenians <pause dur="1.6"/> and this is <pause dur="0.3"/> paragraph two-<pause dur="0.3"/>sixty-five book two paragraph sixty-five <pause dur="0.6"/> of Thucydides and let's read what Thucydides said <pause dur="0.4"/> and we're looking for this <pause dur="0.5"/> admiration and praise <pause dur="0.4"/> of Thucydides <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> some of the # the words are a bit faint on the left hand side unfortunately <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>in this way <pause dur="0.3"/>

Pericles attempted to stop the Athenians from being angry with him <pause dur="0.3"/> and to guide their thoughts in a direction away from their immediate sufferings</reading> <pause dur="0.3"/> the war has just started in fact and they're they're suffering <pause dur="0.6"/> cooped up in the city <pause dur="0.6"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> <reading>so far as public policy was concerned they accepted his arguments <pause dur="0.3"/> sending no more <trunc>assembl</trunc> <trunc>assembassie</trunc> <trunc>ass</trunc> <pause dur="0.5"/> embassies to Sparta <pause dur="0.4"/> and showing an increased energy <pause dur="0.2"/> in carrying on the war <pause dur="1.2"/> as private individuals <pause dur="0.3"/> they still felt the weight of their misfortunes <pause dur="0.5"/> the mass of the people had had little enough to start with <pause dur="0.4"/> and had now been deprived of even that <pause dur="0.5"/> the richer classes <pause dur="0.2"/> had lost their fine estates <pause dur="0.3"/> with their rich and well equipped houses in the country <pause dur="0.8"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> which was the worst thing of all <pause dur="0.3"/> they were at war instead of living in peace <pause dur="0.4"/> in fact the general ill feeling against Pericles persisted <pause dur="0.3"/> and was not satisfied until they'd <trunc>contem</trunc> condemned him <pause dur="0.4"/> to pay a fine <pause dur="0.5"/> not long afterwards however <pause dur="0.2"/> as is the way with crowds <pause dur="0.3"/> they re-elected

him to the generalship <pause dur="0.3"/> and put <pause dur="0.4"/> all their affairs <pause dur="0.3"/> into <trunc>h</trunc> into his hands</reading> <pause dur="0.5"/> so there we have a little <pause dur="0.5"/> chink <pause dur="0.3"/> in what <pause dur="0.9"/> Thucydides says about Pericles that he admits <pause dur="0.5"/> at this particular point <pause dur="0.3"/> he gets deposed from office by the Assembly <pause dur="0.3"/> fined <pause dur="0.5"/> and put back into power <pause dur="1.0"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> what <pause dur="0.3"/> does that suggest about <pause dur="0.3"/> who ran Athens <pause dur="1.6"/> we <trunc>g</trunc> have a picture from Thucydides of <pause dur="0.4"/> Pericles as the leader </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sf0041" trans="pause"> not Pericles </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> not Pericles right the people they don't like something he's done <pause dur="0.4"/> depose him from office by a vote in the Assembly <pause dur="0.3"/> fine him <pause dur="0.4"/> put him back in power again <pause dur="0.5"/> and say carry on <pause dur="0.3"/> but watch it we're in control <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="2.2"/> we have a a # a a <pause dur="0.5"/> chink <pause dur="0.3"/> in <pause dur="0.2"/> this <pause dur="0.2"/> this wall <pause dur="0.2"/> of of silence about Pericles this <pause dur="0.4"/> this <pause dur="0.8"/> assertion <pause dur="0.3"/> not really with evidence but this assertion from Thucydides that Pericles is so great here we have <pause dur="0.4"/> he's admitting that well it's not <pause dur="0.5"/> always quite so much <pause dur="1.0"/> <reading>by that time people felt their own <pause dur="0.9"/> sufferings rather lass less acutely <pause dur="0.3"/> and so far as the general needs of the state were concerned <pause dur="0.4"/>

they regarded Pericles as the best man they had <pause dur="0.6"/> indeed <pause dur="0.3"/> during the whole period of peacetime <pause dur="0.3"/> when Pericles was at the head of affairs <pause dur="0.3"/> the state was wisely led and firmly</reading> <pause dur="0.5"/> # </u><u who="sf0042" trans="latching"> guided </u><u who="nm0007" trans="overlap"> governed <pause dur="0.5"/> what </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sf0042" trans="pause"> guided </u><u who="nm0007" trans="latching"> guided could be guided yes # <pause dur="0.7"/> # <reading>and it was under him <pause dur="0.2"/> that <trunc>assen</trunc> Athens was at her greatest</reading> says Thucydides <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>when the war broke out <pause dur="0.3"/> here too <pause dur="0.2"/> he appears to have accurately estimated <pause dur="0.3"/> what the power of Athens was <pause dur="0.8"/> he survived the outbreak of war by two years and six months <pause dur="0.3"/> and after his death <pause dur="0.5"/> his foresight with regard to the war became even more evident <pause dur="0.5"/> Pericles had said that Athens would be victorious if she bided her time <pause dur="0.3"/> and took care of her navy <pause dur="0.4"/> if she avoided trying to add to her empire during the course of the war <pause dur="0.4"/> and if she did did nothing <pause dur="0.4"/> to <pause dur="0.3"/> endanger the safety of the city <pause dur="0.2"/> itself <pause dur="0.4"/> but his successors did the exact opposite <pause dur="0.3"/> and in other matters which privately had no <trunc>connec</trunc> which apparently had no connection <pause dur="0.4"/> with the war <pause dur="0.3"/> private ambition <pause dur="0.3"/> and private profit <pause dur="0.4"/> led

to policies that were bad <pause dur="0.3"/> both for the Athenians themselves <pause dur="0.3"/> and for their state <pause dur="0.4"/> such policies when successful only brought credit <pause dur="0.3"/> and advantage <pause dur="0.3"/> to individuals <pause dur="0.3"/> and when they failed <pause dur="0.4"/> the whole war potential of the state <pause dur="0.4"/> was <trunc>in</trunc> was impaired</reading> <pause dur="0.9"/> great <pause dur="0.2"/> praise there for Pericles' war <pause dur="0.5"/> policy <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="2.0"/> what did we say last time about this policy about <pause dur="0.3"/> how <pause dur="0.5"/> good a policy it actually was </u><pause dur="2.9"/> <u who="sf0043" trans="pause"> it wasn't that good 'cause they all got the plague </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="nm0007" trans="pause"> it wasn't that yes it wasn't that good they all got the plague # for one thing cooped up in the city quite right <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.6"/> what about the <pause dur="0.3"/> yes </u><u who="sf0044" trans="latching"> well he allowed <pause dur="0.2"/> like the Spartans to get help from the Persians <pause dur="1.2"/> which did drag the war on <gap reason="inaudible" extent="4 secs"/> </u><u who="nm0007" trans="latching"> yes <pause dur="0.3"/> that's right <pause dur="0.4"/> his policy was we wait and see we stay in the city we use our fleet to supply ourselves we make little <pause dur="0.3"/> raids against Sparta but we don't go out and fight them <pause dur="0.4"/> well <pause dur="0.9"/> that policy meant the war lasted for thirty years <pause dur="0.6"/> and in the end Athens <pause dur="0.3"/> lost in the kind of war of attrition <pause dur="0.4"/> against Sparta <pause dur="0.3"/> and <pause dur="0.4"/> # they <pause dur="0.2"/> they <pause dur="0.2"/> the <pause dur="0.2"/> main <pause dur="0.2"/> one of the the decisive reasons for this was the entry of Persia <pause dur="0.4"/> into the war <pause dur="0.4"/> on the Spartan side

or at least <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> aiding the Spartans financially <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> this policy <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> couldn't have worked certainly if you took <pause dur="0.3"/> the possibility of <pause dur="0.2"/> Persia <pause dur="0.4"/> wanting to see the end of the Athenian empire which it surely did <pause dur="0.4"/> if you take that into account it wasn't a very sensible policy <pause dur="0.4"/> and a much more sensible one <pause dur="0.3"/> might have been the policy <pause dur="0.3"/> of other <pause dur="0.3"/> leaders like Alcibiades <pause dur="0.3"/> which <pause dur="0.3"/> aimed to strike <pause dur="0.2"/> Sparta decisively <pause dur="0.9"/> and to <pause dur="0.3"/> do things like the invasion of Sicily <pause dur="0.6"/> #

which failed <pause dur="0.3"/> unfortunately <pause dur="0.4"/> but <pause dur="0.9"/> some historians now argue that # this <pause dur="0.2"/> # <trunc>m</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> actually would have had more chance of success than Pericles just do nothing <pause dur="0.4"/> and wait till we get worn down <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="1.2"/> we take this praise of Pericles with a pinch of of <pause dur="0.2"/> salt <pause dur="0.2"/> it's not self-evident <pause dur="1.0"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> the reason <pause dur="0.2"/> for <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="1.5"/> the # <pause dur="0.6"/> the greatness of Pericles the reason for his <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.7"/> # wisdom <pause dur="0.3"/> for the success of his war policy according to Thucydides <pause dur="0.4"/> was that <pause dur="0.2"/> <reading>Pericles because of his position <pause dur="0.3"/> his intelligence and his known integrity <pause dur="0.4"/> could hold could respect the liberty of the people <pause dur="0.4"/> and at the same time <pause dur="0.3"/> hold them in check</reading> <pause dur="0.4"/> so here we've got this idea of the aristocratic leader <pause dur="0.3"/> who can <pause dur="0.2"/> hold the democracy <pause dur="0.9"/> in check who <pause dur="0.4"/> is <pause dur="0.3"/> respects their liberty he's not a tyrant but he <pause dur="0.5"/> he kind of controls them <pause dur="0.6"/> well we've just seen him being demoted and fined from office so this is not <pause dur="0.9"/> quite so simple as it sounds <pause dur="0.4"/> it was he who led them <pause dur="0.3"/> rather than they who led him <pause dur="0.5"/> <reading>and since he

never sought power <pause dur="0.3"/> from any wrong motive</reading> says Thucydides <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> there's no way of knowing that <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.6"/> <reading>he was under no necessity <pause dur="0.3"/> of flattering them <pause dur="0.4"/> in fact <pause dur="0.3"/> he was so highly respected <pause dur="0.3"/> that he was able to speak angrily to them <pause dur="0.2"/> and contradict them</reading> <pause dur="0.5"/> so Pericles as someone who <pause dur="0.4"/> led the people and didn't flatter them <pause dur="0.5"/> well <pause dur="1.9"/> what <pause dur="0.2"/> was it that Plato said about Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> we looked talked about this last week <pause dur="1.0"/> to do with <pause dur="0.4"/> flattering the people <pause dur="2.2"/> what <pause dur="0.2"/> what <pause dur="0.5"/> # </u><u who="sf0045" trans="latching"> he called him a demagogue <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> the others </u><u who="nm0007" trans="latching"> he called him a demagogue like all the others like other <pause dur="0.3"/> leaders of the democracy <pause dur="0.3"/> and <pause dur="0.7"/> <trunc>peric</trunc> and <pause dur="0.2"/> Plato associated Pericles with one particular <pause dur="0.7"/> # event one particular <pause dur="0.5"/> # deed political deed </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sm0046" trans="pause"> jury pay </u><u who="nm0007" trans="latching"> jury pay introducing pay <pause dur="0.4"/> for the juries <pause dur="0.3"/> which <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> Plato <pause dur="0.6"/> saw <pause dur="0.2"/> as flattery of the people in other words <pause dur="0.3"/> that <pause dur="0.3"/> you're giving the people cash <pause dur="1.0"/> for something which <pause dur="0.3"/> rich <trunc>peop</trunc> sitting on juries which should in the view of aristocrats like <pause dur="0.5"/> # Plato <pause dur="0.3"/> be done for free by rich people <pause dur="0.3"/> and <pause dur="0.3"/> Pericles <pause dur="0.3"/> gives money and <pause dur="0.5"/> Plato saw

this as flattering the people to win power to win votes <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> here we say have Thucydides denying he flattered the people and we can see therefore that it's not <pause dur="0.2"/> quite so simple <pause dur="0.6"/> so again we have <pause dur="0.6"/> Thucydides' praise of Pericles not <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.8"/> as straightforward or as objective as we might think <pause dur="1.7"/> <reading>certainly when he saw they were going too far in a mood of <trunc>over-con</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> confidence <pause dur="0.3"/> he would bring <pause dur="0.2"/> bring to them a sense of their dangers and when they were discouraged for no good reason <pause dur="0.3"/> he would restore their confidence <pause dur="0.2"/> so <pause dur="0.4"/> in what was nominally a democracy <pause dur="0.4"/> power was really in the hands of the first <pause dur="0.3"/> citizen</reading> <pause dur="1.1"/> really <pause dur="0.6"/> a wish <pause dur="1.1"/> of Thucydides of how it should <pause dur="0.4"/> be <pause dur="0.5"/> how a state should be <pause dur="0.4"/> you should have power <pause dur="0.4"/> in the hands of the first citizen <pause dur="0.8"/> # not necessarily how it actually <pause dur="0.4"/> was <pause dur="0.6"/> <reading>but his successors <pause dur="0.3"/> were more on a level with each other <pause dur="0.4"/> and each one of them <pause dur="0.3"/> aimed at occupying the first place <pause dur="0.4"/> adopting methods of demagogy</reading> <pause dur="0.2"/> well we saw Plato <pause dur="0.4"/> thought Pericles was a demagogue <pause dur="0.4"/> <reading>which resulted in their losing

control <pause dur="0.3"/> over the actual <pause dur="0.3"/> conduct of affairs <pause dur="0.4"/> such a policy <pause dur="0.3"/> in a great city with an empire to govern <pause dur="0.3"/> naturally led to a number of mistakes <pause dur="0.3"/> amongst which was the Sicilian expedition</reading> now we think Thucydides is going to say <pause dur="0.9"/> they shouldn't have sent out a fleet <pause dur="0.2"/> they should have abided by Pericles' policy not <pause dur="0.4"/> # try to expand the empire they should have just stayed <pause dur="0.6"/> and # bided their time <pause dur="0.4"/> but he doesn't actually say that <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>though in this case the mistake was not so much an error of judgement <pause dur="0.4"/> with regard to the opposition <pause dur="0.4"/> to be expected <pause dur="0.3"/> as a failure on the part of those who were at home <pause dur="0.4"/> to give proper support to their forces overseas</reading> <pause dur="2.0"/> people think this bit <pause dur="0.6"/> # must have been added <pause dur="0.5"/> after <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> the Peloponnesian War <pause dur="0.3"/> towards the end of the Peloponnesian War <pause dur="0.4"/> when Thucydides changes his view <pause dur="0.4"/> about the way the war was going and actually <pause dur="0.2"/> he seems to suggest there that <pause dur="0.4"/> decisive action <pause dur="0.4"/> overseas <pause dur="0.7"/> might have been the best idea <pause dur="0.7"/> once Thucydides himself writing his History <pause dur="0.5"/>

has actually seen Persia come into the war <pause dur="0.6"/> he's changing his his view there so this sentence if not more of <pause dur="0.3"/> it is thought by scholars to be an insertion <pause dur="0.4"/> by Thucydides that ah well <pause dur="0.3"/> maybe <pause dur="0.2"/> the Sicilian expedition wasn't such a bad thing after all maybe the idea <pause dur="0.4"/> was quite good <pause dur="0.2"/> maybe Alcabiades who led the expedition could have defeated <pause dur="0.6"/> the Spartans <pause dur="0.2"/> and the mistake was that it wasn't supported properly <pause dur="0.4"/> from home and they recalled Alcabiades and <pause dur="0.5"/> the the expedition went to pot <pause dur="0.7"/> # so <pause dur="0.7"/> just you could just mark that as a later insertion <pause dur="0.2"/> by Thucydides probably <pause dur="0.5"/> from the context <pause dur="1.9"/> <reading>because they were so busy with their own personal intrigues</reading> <pause dur="0.2"/> picking up the passage again <pause dur="0.4"/> <reading>for securing the leadership of the people <pause dur="0.3"/> they</reading> that is post-Pericles leaders <pause dur="0.3"/> <reading>allowed this expedition to lose its impetus <pause dur="0.4"/> and by quarrelling amongst themselves began to bring confusion <pause dur="0.3"/> into the policy of the state <pause dur="0.4"/> and yet after losing most of their fleet <pause dur="0.3"/> and all of the other forces in Sicily <pause dur="0.3"/>

with revolutions already breaking out in Athens <pause dur="0.3"/> they nonetheless held out for eight years against their original enemies <pause dur="0.4"/> which were now reinforced by the Sicilians <pause dur="0.3"/> against their own allies most of which had revolted <pause dur="0.3"/> and against Cyrus <pause dur="0.2"/> son of the King of Persia <pause dur="0.3"/> who later joined the other side <pause dur="0.3"/> and provided the Peloponnesians with money <pause dur="0.3"/> for their fleet <pause dur="0.8"/> and in the end it was only because they'd destroyed themselves by their own internal strife <pause dur="0.4"/> that finally they were forced to surrender <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.4"/> overwhelmingly great were the resources which Pericles had in mind at the time <pause dur="0.3"/> when he prophesied an easy victory <pause dur="0.3"/> for Athens over the Peloponnesians alone</reading> <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> we can see there Thucydides changing his ground a bit <pause dur="0.3"/> that it's not that <pause dur="0.5"/> Pericles' policy was correct <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.7"/> Thucydides has seen the failure of Pericles' policy the Persians enter the war <pause dur="0.5"/> it's that <pause dur="0.3"/> well <pause dur="0.9"/> he left <pause dur="0.2"/> Athens very strong <pause dur="0.6"/> and the fact they survived for so long proves it but not that his war policy was great so <pause dur="1.1"/> the

second half of that passage at least is a retrospect <pause dur="0.5"/> by <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides taking into account later <pause dur="0.4"/> events <pause dur="0.2"/> in the war <pause dur="2.4"/> Thucydides two-sixty-five is the <pause dur="1.0"/> passage for <pause dur="0.3"/> the later history of the image of Pericles <pause dur="0.6"/> so very important to fix that one <pause dur="0.4"/> in your mind and <trunc>p</trunc> and we'll see next lecture Plutarch exploiting <pause dur="0.5"/> this passage <pause dur="1.5"/> if we return <pause dur="0.3"/> briefly to <pause dur="0.4"/> the actual <pause dur="0.6"/> handout of the lecture <pause dur="0.4"/> just run through briefly <pause dur="3.7"/> one or two other things about the importance of Pericles we've looked at <pause dur="0.8"/> what Thucydides says about him <pause dur="0.3"/> the <pause dur="0.2"/> praise of Pericles <pause dur="0.6"/> and yet the lack of hard evidence of Pericles being important <pause dur="0.7"/> we've looked at <pause dur="0.2"/> one example of this praise <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="1.7"/> Aristotle <pause dur="1.3"/> very much carries on <pause dur="0.2"/> this idea of Thucydides plainly relies on <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides has read <pause dur="0.4"/> Thucydides <pause dur="0.5"/> he associates him with two measures the citizenship law the introduction of jury pay <pause dur="1.5"/> these two <trunc>wo</trunc> the one of which we mentioned just before <pause dur="2.6"/> and <pause dur="0.9"/> sees sees this as part of Pericles' rivalry <pause dur="0.5"/> with <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> his <pause dur="0.2"/> with <pause dur="0.2"/> other aristocratic <pause dur="0.3"/> leaders <pause dur="0.8"/>

so <pause dur="0.5"/> Aristotle presents these measures by Pericles like the introduction of jury pay <pause dur="0.4"/> as a means of winning popular support <pause dur="0.4"/> as a a <pause dur="0.3"/> means of of <pause dur="0.2"/> bribing the people you give them <pause dur="0.4"/> money for the jury <pause dur="0.4"/> you restrict citizenship so the citizens get the benefits <pause dur="0.4"/> of the the money pouring into Athens so for Aristotle though influenced by Thucydides <pause dur="0.4"/> there's there is this sense of Pericles as <pause dur="1.1"/> a demagogue as not so different from <pause dur="0.5"/> later <pause dur="0.3"/> leaders <pause dur="0.3"/> you don't have this sense of everybody was worse <pause dur="0.4"/> than Pericles it went downhill after Pericles <pause dur="0.6"/> with Aristotle Pericles is the start of it going downhill <pause dur="0.6"/> with these measures to bribe the people as <pause dur="0.4"/> as <pause dur="0.5"/> Aristotle would see it <pause dur="4.8"/> i've put just there finally you can read it that <pause dur="0.3"/> there's basically no other <pause dur="0.2"/> legislation <pause dur="0.4"/> associated with Pericles <pause dur="0.4"/> there's even an attempt <pause dur="0.3"/> by <pause dur="0.5"/>

# one historian <pause dur="0.3"/> Mattingly <pause dur="0.5"/> # to <pause dur="0.2"/> redate a lot of the <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> measures concerning the Athenian empire <pause dur="0.2"/> preserved on <trunc>i</trunc> the evidence for these is inscriptions <pause dur="0.5"/> from the four-forties when Pericles could have had something to do with them <pause dur="0.5"/> to the four-twenties <pause dur="0.7"/> and this is a very technical argument about the letter styles of inscriptions <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> but <pause dur="0.2"/> you could just file that away in your mind that somebody reckons that <pause dur="0.5"/> even <pause dur="0.2"/> some of the events of the four-forties to do with the Athenian empire <pause dur="0.3"/> which could <pause dur="0.4"/> have <pause dur="0.3"/> possibly been associated with Pericles there's no evidence for it <pause dur="0.3"/> might not even have happened till after his death anyway <pause dur="2.3"/> so we leave it there we've talked about <trunc>th</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> Thucydides <pause dur="0.4"/> and <pause dur="0.4"/> his influence on later tradition next time we look at <pause dur="0.7"/> Plutarch's biography <pause dur="0.4"/> of Pericles <pause dur="1.5"/> as <pause dur="0.5"/> always there are <pause dur="0.2"/> back handouts <pause dur="0.2"/> for previous lectures here <pause dur="0.4"/> if you missed any