Skip to main content

sslct039

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<!DOCTYPE TEI.2 SYSTEM "base.dtd">

<TEI.2><teiHeader>

<fileDesc>

<titleStmt>

<title>Research Methodology: Vocabulary</title></titleStmt>

<publicationStmt><distributor>BASE and Oxford Text Archive</distributor>

<idno>sslct039</idno>

<availability><p>The British Academic Spoken English (BASE) corpus was developed at the

Universities of Warwick and Reading, under the directorship of Hilary Nesi

(Centre for English Language Teacher Education, Warwick) and Paul Thompson

(Department of Applied Linguistics, Reading), with funding from BALEAP,

EURALEX, the British Academy and the Arts and Humanities Research Board. The

original recordings are held at the Universities of Warwick and Reading, and

at the Oxford Text Archive and may be consulted by bona fide researchers

upon written application to any of the holding bodies.

The BASE corpus is freely available to researchers who agree to the

following conditions:</p>

<p>1. The recordings and transcriptions should not be modified in any

way</p>

<p>2. The recordings and transcriptions should be used for research purposes

only; they should not be reproduced in teaching materials</p>

<p>3. The recordings and transcriptions should not be reproduced in full for

a wider audience/readership, although researchers are free to quote short

passages of text (up to 200 running words from any given speech event)</p>

<p>4. The corpus developers should be informed of all presentations or

publications arising from analysis of the corpus</p><p>

Researchers should acknowledge their use of the corpus using the following

form of words:

The recordings and transcriptions used in this study come from the British

Academic Spoken English (BASE) corpus, which was developed at the

Universities of Warwick and Reading under the directorship of Hilary Nesi

(Warwick) and Paul Thompson (Reading). Corpus development was assisted by

funding from the Universities of Warwick and Reading, BALEAP, EURALEX, the

British Academy and the Arts and Humanities Research Board. </p></availability>

</publicationStmt>

<sourceDesc>

<recordingStmt>

<recording dur="00:47:06" n="7551">

<date>unknown</date><equipment><p>video</p></equipment>

<respStmt><name>BASE team</name>

</respStmt></recording></recordingStmt></sourceDesc></fileDesc>

<profileDesc>

<langUsage><language id="en">English</language>

</langUsage>

<particDesc>

<person id="nf1292" role="main speaker" n="n" sex="f"><p>nf1292, main speaker, non-student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1293" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1293, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1294" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1294, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1295" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1295, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1296" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1296, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1297" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1297, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1298" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1298, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1299" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1299, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sm1300" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1300, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1301" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1301, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1302" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1302, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1303" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1303, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1304" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1304, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1305" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1305, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1306" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1306, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1307" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1307, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1308" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1308, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1309" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1309, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1310" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1310, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1311" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1311, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1312" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1312, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1313" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1313, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1314" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1314, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1315" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1315, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1316" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1316, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1317" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1317, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1318" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1318, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1319" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1319, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1320" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1320, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1321" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1321, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1322" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1322, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1323" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1323, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1324" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1324, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1325" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1325, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1326" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1326, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1327" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1327, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1328" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1328, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1329" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1329, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1330" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1330, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1331" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1331, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1332" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1332, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sf1333" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1333, participant, student, female</p></person>

<person id="sm1334" role="participant" n="s" sex="m"><p>sm1334, participant, student, male</p></person>

<person id="sf1335" role="participant" n="s" sex="f"><p>sf1335, participant, student, female</p></person>

<personGrp id="ss" role="audience" size="m"><p>ss, audience, medium group </p></personGrp>

<personGrp id="sl" role="all" size="m"><p>sl, all, medium group</p></personGrp>

<personGrp role="speakers" size="46"><p>number of speakers: 46</p></personGrp>

</particDesc>

<textClass>

<keywords>

<list>

<item n="speechevent">Lecture</item>

<item n="acaddept">CELTE (Centre for English Language Teacher Education)</item>

<item n="acaddiv">ss</item>

<item n="partlevel">PG</item>

<item n="module">unknown</item>

</list></keywords>

</textClass>

</profileDesc></teiHeader><text><body>

<u who="nf1292"> i thought what i'd do today having introduced to you <pause dur="0.2"/> last week the idea of # <pause dur="0.3"/> measuring vocabulary do you remember do you remember the # <pause dur="0.4"/> do you remember the E # E-V-S-T <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> test <pause dur="0.8"/> yes with a yes-no the yes-no test <pause dur="0.4"/> from last week <pause dur="0.4"/> and you had a handout <pause dur="0.4"/> # with the words where you had to say whether you <trunc>r</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> recognized them or not <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> i thought i would show this week <pause dur="0.5"/> some ways in which that had been put <pause dur="0.2"/> into use <pause dur="0.3"/> as a means of research <pause dur="0.4"/> by students <pause dur="0.2"/> here <pause dur="0.8"/> right <pause dur="0.2"/> and i've got three examples of <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="1.3"/> research students here in CELTE who have used <pause dur="0.4"/> # the <pause dur="0.4"/> yes-no test format <pause dur="0.4"/> as part of their research <pause dur="0.4"/> and then i thought if there's time i'd show you <pause dur="0.3"/> # i'd move on to show you <pause dur="0.2"/> some research which went beyond that and looked at <pause dur="0.4"/> # vocabulary knowledge <pause dur="0.2"/> more extensively because <pause dur="0.2"/> of course there's more to knowing a word than just being able to recognize it on the page </u><gap reason="break in recording" extent="uncertain"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> the handout # <pause dur="0.2"/> that you've got in front of you is from <pause dur="0.6"/> a Chinese <pause dur="0.5"/> student you can see <pause dur="0.2"/> <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> it

<trunc>say</trunc> says from <gap reason="name" extent="2 words"/> and <gap reason="name" extent="2 words"/> nineteen-ninety-nine <pause dur="0.4"/> # this is a PhD student that we had with us for quite some time she came from mainland China <pause dur="0.5"/> then she # <pause dur="0.4"/> she came here and now she she married an American she's now living in Chicago so <pause dur="0.4"/><vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="1"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> and <pause dur="0.6"/> she was interested in Chinese students <pause dur="0.4"/> # here at <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> # <trunc>b</trunc> <pause dur="1.0"/> she had to in the end she had to use Hong Kong Chinese students because they were more of them and they were <pause dur="0.3"/> there are a lot of Hong Kong Chinese students in the Engineering department <pause dur="0.5"/> i don't know if you've noticed them <pause dur="0.2"/> but there's lots of them <pause dur="0.4"/> and they do have language problems <pause dur="0.6"/> and <pause dur="0.6"/> <trunc>i</trunc> # from her <pause dur="1.0"/> # conversations with these students she got the impression that <pause dur="0.4"/> the <pause dur="0.2"/> vocabulary <pause dur="0.4"/> that they had greatest difficulty with was the technical <pause dur="0.2"/> vocabulary <pause dur="0.6"/> now that's <pause dur="0.8"/> really flying in the face of <pause dur="0.4"/> received <pause dur="0.2"/> opinion <pause dur="0.6"/> because <pause dur="0.3"/> it's generally thought that overseas students or <pause dur="0.2"/> non-native speakers <pause dur="0.4"/> have <pause dur="0.5"/> problems with what's called subtechnical vocabulary <pause dur="0.4"/> that is <pause dur="0.3"/> the language

of academic discourse words like <pause dur="0.2"/> prioritize and analysis and <pause dur="0.4"/> distribute <pause dur="0.2"/> those kind of words that are used <pause dur="0.4"/> right across the range of academic subjects <pause dur="0.3"/> it's believed that those are the vocabulary items that are difficult for non-native speakers <pause dur="0.3"/> and that the <pause dur="0.3"/> truly technical terms don't pose a problem <pause dur="0.6"/> that's the belief <pause dur="0.5"/> if you read about # <pause dur="0.4"/> the vocabulary needs of university students <pause dur="0.3"/> that is what you will read <pause dur="0.5"/> so the title of our <pause dur="0.5"/> paper <pause dur="0.2"/> is Are We Teaching The Right <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>Words <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> and i mean i don't know <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="1"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> it # <trunc>i</trunc> <trunc>i</trunc> it could be that her <vocal desc="sneeze" iterated="n" n="sf1293"/> research <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="1"/></u><u who="sf1293" trans="overlap"> sorry </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> was just a blip in the otherwise # <pause dur="0.4"/> but not a great deal of research has been done into this <pause dur="0.4"/> she wanted to find out whether <pause dur="0.2"/> it was the subtechnical vocabulary or the technical vocabulary <pause dur="0.2"/> that was causing difficulties for the Hong Kong engineering students at <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="0.4"/> she # <pause dur="0.3"/> her first <pause dur="0.6"/> the first thing that she did was to make a corpus of engineering texts <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> some of you <pause dur="0.3"/> i hope all of you now have

heard about <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> corpus design <pause dur="0.2"/> a little bit <pause dur="0.5"/> we'll be doing we'll be looking at it in the CALL option <pause dur="0.5"/> this afternoon <pause dur="1.0"/> and <pause dur="0.6"/> # those of you who do Use of English will have had a look at the British National Corpus a little bit <pause dur="0.4"/> and last week <pause dur="0.3"/> i mentioned it as well <trunc>w</trunc> # # with regard to frequency lists because frequency lists are derived from corpora <pause dur="0.3"/> so everybody <pause dur="0.7"/> feels that they know a bit about <pause dur="0.7"/> corpora language corpora <pause dur="0.2"/> yeah <pause dur="0.3"/> well <pause dur="0.2"/> if you want to ask a question like <pause dur="1.4"/> do students know <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> what kind of words do students know in their engineering programme <pause dur="0.2"/> and what kind of words don't students know in their engineering programme <pause dur="0.3"/> it's no use taking a general frequency list is it <pause dur="0.4"/> because it won't contain <pause dur="0.2"/> the words that they # read on their engineering course <pause dur="0.4"/> so she had to create her own corpus <pause dur="0.7"/> and # <pause dur="0.2"/> # <trunc>c</trunc> how how would she do this any suggestions <pause dur="1.9"/> <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> </u><pause dur="0.9"/> <u who="sf1294" trans="pause"> looked at technical books and technical material </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching">

yes </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sf1294" trans="pause"> mm </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yeah <pause dur="0.7"/> she she actually took the <trunc>any</trunc> has anyone got any other suggestions as how it might be done that's in fact what she did but has anyone <pause dur="0.8"/> got any </u><u who="sf1295" trans="overlap"> did she use any technical dictionaries <pause dur="0.7"/> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> # <pause dur="0.2"/> # she didn't because <pause dur="1.2"/> it would have been difficult to know whether those were the actual words used </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="sf1295" trans="pause"> right </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # on those particular courses in fact the M-A <pause dur="0.3"/> in # <pause dur="0.3"/> the M-S-C in Engineering at <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> is a very complex course it's got <pause dur="0.3"/> lots and lots of different modules and <pause dur="0.3"/> every student seems to take a different pathway you know you can have so many choices <pause dur="0.3"/> so it's a it's like <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>y</trunc> your M-A but <pause dur="0.4"/> more complicated because <pause dur="0.2"/> every student might take a different you know a different sets of options <pause dur="0.3"/> and so # in fact there's a lot there's a <sic corr="very">wery</sic> wide coverage of subjects <pause dur="0.2"/> ranging from business right through to very highly <pause dur="0.3"/> sort of technical work on <pause dur="0.7"/> <trunc>s</trunc> sort of

physics <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="0.9"/> no one's got any more <trunc>s</trunc> what about <pause dur="0.3"/><kinesic desc="indicates camera" iterated="n"/> what </u><u who="sf1296" trans="overlap"> recording </u><u who="sm1297" trans="pause"> mm </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> yeah that would have been ideal if if we'd <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> if # if we'd been doing the C-D-ROM project <pause dur="0.4"/><event desc="students enter room" iterated="n" n="ss"/> then <pause dur="0.5"/> we would have <trunc>be</trunc> we would have had access to recordings of lectures can you <pause dur="0.4"/> give the handout to the people who've just come in <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> we would have been able to use recordings of lectures and that would have been brilliant <pause dur="0.3"/> but at the time i mean <pause dur="0.6"/> # <trunc>y</trunc> <pause dur="0.5"/> i must say that <pause dur="2.4"/> corpora of this kind are very new and i don't know if anyone has got <pause dur="0.2"/> anyone in the world has got a good corpus of <pause dur="0.4"/> postgraduate engineering course English <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> # it's not as <pause dur="0.9"/> <trunc>sh</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> it wasn't as though she was competing with other products elsewhere <pause dur="0.3"/> # she used textbooks she scanned in engineering textbooks she used the recommended books from <pause dur="0.4"/> from the reading list that the students were given <pause dur="0.7"/> and so she got her corpus in fact it ended up in <pause dur="0.3"/> here it says a hundred-and-ninety-seven-<pause dur="0.4"/>thousand

i think it ended up as <pause dur="0.2"/> larger than that but at the time when <pause dur="0.4"/> this experiment was done <pause dur="0.5"/> and # <pause dur="1.0"/> she <pause dur="1.1"/> divided them up into technical words and subtechnical words <pause dur="0.8"/> and common words can anyone <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>any</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> any idea how she did that <pause dur="0.6"/> she wanted to know whether <pause dur="0.4"/> which were the words that were causing difficulty <pause dur="0.3"/> to these students <pause dur="0.7"/> so first of all she had to <pause dur="0.4"/> categorize the words <pause dur="0.2"/> anyone <pause dur="0.2"/> got any suggestions how you might go about doing that </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sf1298" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> got plastic </u><u who="sm1299" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="sf1298" trans="pause"> plastic industry if you divide it into industries or departments of the engineering or </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> they were <pause dur="0.2"/> all the words <pause dur="0.2"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> all the sources were <pause dur="0.3"/> # divided up according to modules </u><u who="sf1298" trans="latching"> u-huh </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> yeah <pause dur="0.4"/> but <pause dur="0.3"/> so for example there is a module called Polymer Materials Processes and Product </u><u who="sf1298" trans="overlap"> mm-hmm </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> i don't know if they actually <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>use that full term it would be <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.3"/> very you <trunc>t</trunc> it's

a bit of a tongue twister but # <pause dur="1.0"/> # there are about twenty modules of that type <pause dur="1.0"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> so <pause dur="0.9"/> she looked <pause dur="0.4"/> when she got <trunc>m</trunc> made her corpus <pause dur="0.3"/> she <pause dur="0.4"/> marked up <pause dur="0.2"/> the sources so that she knew whether a text belonged to <kinesic desc="indicates point on handout" iterated="n"/>this module or another module <pause dur="0.3"/> but that wasn't her question <pause dur="0.2"/> she didn't want to know <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> is the vocabulary of <trunc>polyem</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> polymer materials <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> easier than the vocabulary of # <pause dur="0.5"/> plastics and erosion <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>or something <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.2"/> she wanted to know whether technical <pause dur="0.3"/> vocabulary was more difficult than subtechnical </u><u who="sf1298" trans="latching"> but this is technical isn't it here </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> this is technical yes </u><u who="sf1298" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> but how did she identify the <pause dur="0.2"/> how did she distinguish <pause dur="0.2"/> between <pause dur="0.7"/> the technical <pause dur="0.6"/> the so-called subtechnical <pause dur="0.4"/> and the common everyday words because obviously <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> a lot of the text in any subject is </u><u who="sm1300" trans="overlap"> you can test the frequency of words </u><u who="sf1301" trans="overlap"> mm </u><u who="sm1300" trans="overlap"> used in a lecture </u><pause dur="1.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause">

well she didn't actually use lectures she could <trunc>ha</trunc> she <trunc>wou</trunc> she would have done if she'd <pause dur="0.2"/> had access to them but <trunc>sh</trunc> she didn't so she used <pause dur="0.3"/> textbooks <pause dur="0.3"/> but <trunc>ho</trunc> how would you how would the frequency what would the frequency tell you </u><pause dur="1.0"/> <u who="sm1300" trans="pause"> you have to create a database you know # to <unclear>count</unclear> in all the words <pause dur="0.5"/> most frequently used # <pause dur="0.5"/> in one text or several texts there </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> but that would <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>sh</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> in fact she did that she looked at frequency but how does that categorize words into technical <pause dur="0.2"/> subtechnical <pause dur="0.6"/> and common <pause dur="0.8"/> because in fact the most frequent words in a in a <pause dur="0.6"/> let's say you looked up in a <trunc>t</trunc> a textbook a chapter about corrosion <pause dur="0.3"/> probably corrosion <pause dur="0.2"/> is the most frequent word <pause dur="0.3"/> but of course we know that corrosion is not a frequent word in the language in general </u><u who="sm1300" trans="latching"> you can check that out with research papers you know <unclear>of course</unclear> <pause dur="0.3"/> in the <trunc>f</trunc> from the field </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause">

oh that would be great if you could but if you could do that you wouldn't <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>actually need to do the research yourself would you <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/></u><u who="sm1300" trans="latching"> mm </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> this is this is the <pause dur="0.3"/> question that faces us all when we're doing research that at at this level at postgraduate level <pause dur="0.8"/> unfortunately <pause dur="0.5"/> there doesn't exist <pause dur="0.4"/> any research which <pause dur="1.0"/> says <pause dur="0.6"/> which words are <pause dur="0.8"/> # technical and which are subtechnical <pause dur="0.2"/> or if there does <pause dur="0.3"/> then <pause dur="0.5"/> <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/>'s research <pause dur="0.2"/> is challenging it </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sf1302" trans="pause"> did she have to <pause dur="0.2"/> # <pause dur="0.8"/> ask somebody in the department for some kind of word list <pause dur="0.5"/> and then tag them up herself </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yes </u><u who="sf1302" trans="overlap"> when she devised the <pause dur="0.3"/> the corpus </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> that's an interesting notion do you think departments have word lists </u><pause dur="0.8"/> <u who="sf1303" trans="pause"> mm-mm </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="2"/> </u><u who="ss" trans="overlap"> no </u><u who="sf1304" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> it's perhaps some do # <pause dur="0.2"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> # we don't if if someone came to us at CELTE and said what's

your word list <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> for # <pause dur="0.4"/> technical terms in applied linguistics we'd <pause dur="0.3"/> the all that we could say was well there are dictionaries of applied linguistics </u><u who="sf1305" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> we couldn't actually say what we used or what we expect what words we <trunc>c</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> we could recognize them <pause dur="0.6"/> and in that it in in fact she did this <pause dur="0.3"/> after having identified her technical terms she went back to the lecturers <pause dur="0.3"/> and asked them <pause dur="0.4"/> to mark up the ones that they thought were most important <pause dur="0.4"/> but they couldn't she couldn't have spontaneously asked them to compile a list <pause dur="0.4"/> because <pause dur="0.6"/> they wouldn't have been able to think i mean she had <pause dur="0.4"/> hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of technical terms <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>y</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> her her the the lecturers wouldn't have been able to <pause dur="0.9"/> <trunc>m</trunc> <trunc>m</trunc> dream those up they wouldn't they wouldn't have remembered </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sf1306" trans="pause"> have we got excuse me </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="sf1306" trans="overlap"> have we got a list of the subtechnical words from this module because <pause dur="0.3"/> just with the

technical words you know doesn't help me <pause dur="0.2"/> analyse how she did it <pause dur="0.2"/> i mean i know what a polymer is and i know what </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="sf1306" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible due to overlap" extent="1 sec"/> is </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> i'll i'll talk you through it shall i </u><u who="sf1306" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> # <pause dur="0.2"/> # <trunc>n</trunc> nobody's <trunc>g</trunc> nobody seems to have any <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>idea how it's done so i'll tell you <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> <pause dur="0.2"/> # </u><u who="sf1307" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible due to overlap" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> you you see the problem don't you </u><u who="sf1307" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> she <trunc>w</trunc> # # <trunc>sh</trunc> the <trunc>q</trunc> the research question was <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="1.1"/> there's <trunc>tech</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> we have a notion we all have a notion i think <pause dur="0.2"/> that some words are technical <pause dur="0.7"/> yeah <pause dur="0.4"/> everyone has a feeling for that don't they <pause dur="0.2"/> i mean if we look at this if we look at <pause dur="0.3"/> thermoplastics i think we'd all agree <pause dur="0.5"/> that's not an everyday word <pause dur="0.6"/> and it's not a word that's used <pause dur="0.3"/> in academic subjects generally <pause dur="0.4"/> yep # <pause dur="0.4"/> this is the first time this word has ever been used in <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>CELTE <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.3"/> we we don't use the word thermoplastics does not pop up <pause dur="0.7"/> in lectures in # <pause dur="0.5"/> applied linguistics <pause dur="0.7"/> right <pause dur="0.2"/> so we sort of feel that that's technical <pause dur="1.0"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> we also have a feeling for words which are

academic <pause dur="0.9"/> but are not technical <pause dur="0.2"/> what we'd call subtechnical is that true <pause dur="0.3"/> everyone has a feeling for that <pause dur="0.2"/> if you look over the page <pause dur="1.4"/> table two <pause dur="1.0"/> you'll see a # # a very small sample of the words that we might think of as being subtechnical </u><u who="sf1308" trans="latching"> is this for the same module </u><pause dur="0.8"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # i'll explain in a moment </u><u who="sf1308" trans="overlap"> oh okay <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # so it's ensure priority precise fundamental <pause dur="0.3"/> those are words which <pause dur="0.2"/> you'd expect <pause dur="0.6"/> you'd want people studying at university level to know <pause dur="0.5"/> yes <pause dur="0.7"/> they're useful words for writing assignments <pause dur="0.3"/> they pop up in <pause dur="0.6"/> # university level textbooks <pause dur="0.3"/> they they come up in <pause dur="0.3"/> university level lectures <pause dur="0.5"/> that's our subtechnical vocabulary <pause dur="0.3"/> that is usually the vocabulary that is <pause dur="0.2"/> that <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> E-A-P teachers try to teach <pause dur="1.2"/> yeah <pause dur="0.6"/> because it's the kind of vocabulary that people don't learn at school <pause dur="1.7"/> yeah <pause dur="0.3"/> on the whole <pause dur="0.4"/> or maybe very at the top level <pause dur="0.3"/> of <trunc>s</trunc> of secondary school <pause dur="0.8"/> but it's the kind of vocabulary

they need <pause dur="0.3"/> for university level study so that's our subtechnical vocabulary <pause dur="1.6"/> we we feel this intuitively <pause dur="0.6"/> but we want we don't want to just take our corpus and go along and say oh that's technical that's subtechnical that's technical that <pause dur="0.2"/> that would be too intuitive <pause dur="0.2"/> we can't do that <pause dur="1.0"/> we have to have some means of <pause dur="0.8"/> defining <pause dur="0.2"/> what is a technical term and what is a subtechnical term <pause dur="0.4"/> and what is an everyday word <pause dur="0.6"/> yeah <pause dur="0.5"/> so # <pause dur="0.2"/> it's <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> isn't it </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sm1300" trans="pause"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> yeah <pause dur="0.2"/> so <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/>'s idea of <pause dur="0.3"/> going to another research paper that's already done <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>it<shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> is a great idea but it's not possible <pause dur="0.3"/> because nobody else has done it <pause dur="0.3"/> people will be coming to this research paper <pause dur="0.6"/> in the future <pause dur="0.5"/> but <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>w</trunc> <trunc>w</trunc> <pause dur="0.5"/> when you <trunc>d</trunc> when you're doing research you often have to just strike out <trunc>at</trunc> for something <pause dur="0.3"/> you can take models of <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> previous approaches <pause dur="0.3"/> but you can't actually take the data because the data isn't there <pause dur="1.2"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>w</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> what # what <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> did in actual fact

was she took a <pause dur="0.2"/> # a five-thousand word frequency list this Thorndike and Lorge <pause dur="0.3"/> yeah <pause dur="0.6"/> it's a very standard word frequency list <pause dur="0.3"/> and she said okay <pause dur="0.9"/> we're going to <trunc>n</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> knock out <pause dur="0.3"/> any word in the corpus that is in Thorndike and <trunc>le</trunc> Lorge's frequency list of the most frequent five-thousand words in the language <pause dur="0.3"/> yeah <pause dur="1.2"/> why did she do that <pause dur="0.8"/> why did she knock those out why did she remove </u><u who="sf1309" trans="overlap"> # was she doing a process of elimination </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> yeah but why did she do it </u><u who="sf1309" trans="latching"> 'cause they're not technical <unclear>words</unclear> <pause dur="0.5"/> <gap reason="inaudible due to overlap" extent="1 sec"/></u><u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> yeah <pause dur="0.2"/> they're not technical <pause dur="0.3"/> they're not subtechnical <pause dur="0.6"/> # and anyway <pause dur="0.3"/> the students probably knew all those <pause dur="0.8"/> you know you'd expect them to have <trunc>five-thou</trunc> a five-thousand word vocabulary at least <pause dur="0.5"/> so you can just knock those out <pause dur="0.3"/> so what do you do with the remainder <pause dur="0.2"/> the remainder presumably are <pause dur="0.2"/> more difficult words some of them will be subtechnical <pause dur="0.4"/> some of them will be

technical <pause dur="0.2"/> how do you distinguish between those two <pause dur="1.5"/> except <trunc>intui</trunc> apart from intuitively </u><u who="sf1310" trans="latching"> <trunc>i</trunc> is one actually a product <pause dur="0.9"/> # that one's actually a product or # <pause dur="0.3"/> a specific process </u><pause dur="1.0"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> well if you look at these words i mean <pause dur="0.2"/> actually a <trunc>l</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> these ones here are <pause dur="0.4"/> are nouns but <pause dur="0.3"/> they # # </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="sf1311" trans="pause"> what are you talking about the subtechnical or the technical </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> # <pause dur="0.3"/> subtechnical or technical i mean they # <pause dur="0.2"/> they don't seem </u><u who="sf1311" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> to belong to a particular they could be # of any lexical word class </u><u who="sf1311" trans="latching"> so how do we divide the technical </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="sf1311" trans="overlap"> words from the subtechnical words </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> from the <trunc>subtechn</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> i mean <pause dur="0.2"/> it's a truism in i mean all the time in <pause dur="0.3"/> vocabulary teaching <pause dur="0.7"/> we read about <pause dur="0.2"/>

technical <pause dur="0.3"/> terms we read about <pause dur="0.2"/> subtechnical terms <pause dur="0.2"/> we read about core vocabulary <pause dur="0.5"/> but <pause dur="0.6"/> how do you know whether it's technical or subtechnical </u><u who="sm1312" trans="latching"> intuitively <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> it's always been done intuitively in the past but it's not very satisfactory is it </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sf1313" trans="pause"> would she somehow <pause dur="0.3"/> is there any way she would link it to the British National Corpus and <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="0.8"/> and use </u><pause dur="1.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> you </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sf1313" trans="pause"> use a way of <pause dur="0.4"/> i mean i don't know if the British National Corpus have a <pause dur="0.5"/> a way of describing technical and non-technical terms </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> no <pause dur="0.3"/> no </u><u who="sf1313" trans="overlap"> no </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> no </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sf1313" trans="pause"> so she's not </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> no </u><u who="sf1313" trans="latching"> sort of </u><pause dur="0.9"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> it's there's <trunc>no</trunc> there's nothing like that tagged in <pause dur="0.2"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> if it was <pause dur="0.2"/> how would they have done it </u><u who="sf1313" trans="latching"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> it's the same question as <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> <pause dur="0.2"/> i mean </u><u who="sf1313" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> you're you're saying <pause dur="0.3"/> well we'll go back and look at what <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/> somebody else has said <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.3"/>

but in fact <trunc>i</trunc> # <pause dur="0.2"/> # with a lot of research you can't do that you have to <pause dur="0.2"/> make your own decisions <pause dur="0.5"/> it's quite frightening really isn't it when you do research and then you suddenly look round and <pause dur="0.3"/> you're the one who's making the decisions you can't just <pause dur="0.5"/> say you <trunc>ju</trunc> can't just report on what somebody else has said </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sf1314" trans="pause"> maybe she compared it <pause dur="0.4"/> to another course <pause dur="0.2"/> and compared the words that were similar <pause dur="1.0"/> the technical </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> that <pause dur="0.3"/> yes </u><u who="sf1314" trans="overlap"> one would have been the one of the <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> the i think we're getting somewhere here aren't we <pause dur="0.2"/> i <trunc>th</trunc> what you're what you seem to be saying is that <pause dur="1.0"/> technical words would <pause dur="0.2"/> only occur on an engineering course </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sm1315" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> and subtechnical vocabulary <pause dur="0.2"/> would also <trunc>occo</trunc> occur on a course in applied linguistics </u><u who="sm1315" trans="overlap"> look at the interdisciplinary side </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> yes </u><u who="sm1315" trans="latching"> mm </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> yeah <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>s</trunc> what what we're actually talking about is the two <pause dur="0.2"/> # <pause dur="0.7"/> parameters of frequency

and range <pause dur="0.4"/> aren't we <pause dur="1.6"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> subtechnical <trunc>fa</trunc> # vocabulary <pause dur="0.6"/> has a wide range <pause dur="1.2"/> technical vocabulary <pause dur="0.3"/> has a narrow <pause dur="0.2"/> range <pause dur="1.0"/> as far as frequency <pause dur="0.3"/> is concerned <pause dur="0.9"/> both sets of vocabulary <pause dur="0.6"/> are maybe <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>equ</trunc> roughly equally <pause dur="0.2"/> frequent <pause dur="1.3"/> yeah <pause dur="0.3"/> do you see what i mean </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sf1316" trans="pause"> mm-hmm </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> it <pause dur="0.3"/> # to go back to this idea of a frequency count <pause dur="0.2"/> if you did if you took a very large corpus like the British National Corpus <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> you <pause dur="0.6"/> the technical words and the subtechnical words would be equally frequent <pause dur="0.8"/> that is not very frequent at all in actual fact <pause dur="1.1"/> but <pause dur="0.2"/> if you looked at their distribution patterns they would be completely different <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>subte</trunc> if you took a range of texts <pause dur="0.3"/> and you <trunc>too</trunc> thought of a graph <pause dur="0.3"/> the subtechnical vocabulary would be <pause dur="0.3"/> sort of <trunc>f</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>f</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> fairly low frequency <pause dur="0.2"/> right across a range of texts academic texts <pause dur="0.2"/> have to be academic texts <pause dur="0.5"/> whereas the <pause dur="0.2"/> technical vocabulary <pause dur="0.2"/> would peak <pause dur="0.7"/> in one <pause dur="0.6"/> <trunc>f</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> field <pause dur="0.4"/> and would be virtually non-existent in any of the

<trunc>oth</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> so on the first page things like thermoplastics <pause dur="0.7"/> <trunc>cur</trunc> # occurs <pause dur="1.2"/> well <trunc>b</trunc> let's take polymer because that's a real example <pause dur="0.4"/> it has <pause dur="0.3"/> it occurs a hundred-and-six times <pause dur="1.5"/> but with a range of one so only in <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>one <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.4"/> only in one text <pause dur="0.2"/> only one subject <pause dur="0.8"/> right <pause dur="0.3"/> # in fact what <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> did was take <pause dur="0.6"/> i think there were twenty-odd modules and as i say they ranged from physics to <pause dur="0.2"/> business <pause dur="0.5"/> and she said they it occurs <trunc>w</trunc> in just one module so only <pause dur="0.3"/> one module of the course ever mentions polymer <pause dur="0.5"/> but they but <pause dur="0.3"/> in the sample of texts she took it occurred a hundred-and-six times <pause dur="0.7"/> right <pause dur="0.3"/> so <pause dur="0.2"/> but if you turn over the page <pause dur="0.3"/> a word like ensure <pause dur="1.0"/> which is subtechnical <pause dur="1.2"/> occurs forty-six times <pause dur="0.3"/> but across fifteen <pause dur="0.2"/> modules <pause dur="1.3"/> okay <pause dur="1.8"/> yeah <pause dur="0.2"/> so that answers <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/>'s question she said are they all <trunc>a</trunc> are the subtechnical vocabulary from one module </u><pause dur="0.8"/> <u who="sf1317" trans="pause"> yes </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> and no it's not it's from fifteen you know it's from fifteen sixteen eighteen <pause dur="0.4"/> seventeen

modules <pause dur="0.4"/> because <pause dur="0.4"/> in fact it would only probably <trunc>i</trunc> it only occurs two or three times in each of those modules </u><u who="sf1318" trans="latching"> how many modules were taken to </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> well you know i can't <pause dur="0.2"/> remember exactly but it must be it must be over </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="sf1319" trans="pause"> over eighteen </u><u who="sm1320" trans="overlap"> eighteen </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> it must be over eighteen 'cause that's the largest number we have here i've <trunc>g</trunc> i think it's about twenty-<pause dur="0.2"/>one twenty-two different modules i <trunc>c</trunc> i can check <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>for you <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/></u><u who="sf1319" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>if you like <pause dur="0.6"/><shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> mm </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="sf1321" trans="pause"> # for <gap reason="inaudible" extent="2 secs"/> like tests <unclear>kind of thing</unclear> </u><pause dur="0.9"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # <pause dur="0.2"/> you in you mean their productive use </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sf1321" trans="pause"> no </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yeah <pause dur="0.2"/> no she <pause dur="0.4"/> that's an interesting research question <pause dur="0.2"/> and <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> # somebody here might decide that they wanted to do just that <pause dur="0.2"/> i mean <pause dur="0.3"/> it would be <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> ideally <pause dur="0.3"/> it <pause dur="0.2"/> if you had lots of time <pause dur="0.3"/> it would be very interesting to compare <pause dur="0.2"/> receptive and productive <pause dur="0.3"/> knowledge <pause dur="0.4"/> but she only looked at receptive knowledge she actually looked at <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> how <pause dur="0.6"/> <trunc>w</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> what words students could recognize in actual fact <pause dur="0.3"/> as an indicator of how <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> how successful they would

be in reading their set texts <pause dur="0.4"/> so <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>i</trunc> the productive language is <trunc>ma</trunc> is rather difficult actually isn't it because <pause dur="0.3"/> you can avoid <pause dur="0.2"/> using words <pause dur="0.6"/> and it then it's impossible to measure whether you know them or not we'll get on to that in just a moment because it is a problem <pause dur="0.3"/> if you want to find out whether somebody knows a word by examining their productive output <pause dur="1.6"/> you hit problems because just because <pause dur="0.2"/> the word isn't in their assignment <pause dur="0.3"/> doesn't mean that they couldn't <pause dur="0.7"/> write it <pause dur="0.2"/> if they wanted to <pause dur="1.1"/> so it it is problematic isn't it <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> you know <pause dur="0.3"/> if we looked <pause dur="0.4"/> <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> in fact those of you who are in the CALL option <pause dur="0.2"/> if you'd like to come along this afternoon with <pause dur="0.5"/> # a disk full of your own writing <pause dur="1.0"/> we can try it out on a concordancer <pause dur="0.5"/> and we you can have a frequency list of all the words you use in your assignments if anyone would like to do that <pause dur="0.2"/> if who's in the CALL option or <pause dur="0.6"/> anyone really if they want to come along # sometime and try it out <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> you can actually look at all the words you've

produced in your assignments so far this year <pause dur="0.3"/> you if you have a corpus of all your assignments <pause dur="0.4"/> but <pause dur="0.3"/> that's not a sum total of all the words you <pause dur="0.3"/> well you could use </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sf1322" trans="pause"> i i <pause dur="0.2"/> i think that's probably more <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.7"/> obvious <pause dur="0.2"/> with subtechnical than the technical 'cause they can't get away <pause dur="0.2"/> with writing about <pause dur="0.3"/> plastics if they're going to use these words </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> yes </u><u who="sf1322" trans="overlap"> they can with the subtechnical </u><u who="sf1322" trans="overlap"> yes yes that's an interesting point </u><u who="sf1322" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> that's an interesting question </u><u who="sf1322" trans="overlap"> but they can't replace any of these with anything else but they could some <pause dur="0.2"/> subtechnical words </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> yes <pause dur="0.4"/> yes that's true <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> that's true <pause dur="0.4"/> yes <pause dur="0.4"/> it's very <trunc>i</trunc> you start getting into subjective judgements about </u><u who="sf1322" trans="overlap"> yes </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> the subtechnical words 'cause you're you're start asking yourself well would <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> would

ensure have been a more appropriate word here and it's difficult to </u><u who="sf1322" trans="overlap"> mm </u><pause dur="0.9"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> okay so <pause dur="0.3"/> having <pause dur="0.5"/> so she identified <trunc>o</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> on the basis of frequency and range <pause dur="0.5"/> her technical and her subtechnical <pause dur="0.3"/> and having done that <pause dur="0.3"/> she <pause dur="0.5"/> borrowed the <trunc>ide</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> idea from the E-V-S-T <pause dur="0.2"/> remember <trunc>E</trunc> E-V-S-T <pause dur="0.4"/> the yes-no vocabulary test <pause dur="0.5"/> she just borrowed that idea <pause dur="0.2"/> she couldn't use that test because that test is for <pause dur="0.2"/> very frequent <pause dur="0.2"/> knowledge of very frequent words the first ten-thousand words in English <pause dur="0.3"/> so obviously <pause dur="0.2"/> words like polymer weren't tested there <pause dur="0.4"/> so she had to make her own tests <pause dur="0.7"/> and she tested <pause dur="0.4"/> everybody <pause dur="0.3"/> for <pause dur="0.5"/> the technical vocabulary <pause dur="0.3"/> in the modules they had taken it wouldn't have been fair to test them on the technical vocabulary of the modules they hadn't taken <pause dur="0.6"/> and she tested <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>ev</trunc> and everyone got the same test for subtechnical vocabulary because <pause dur="0.3"/> the subtechnical vocabulary occurred across all the modules <pause dur="1.6"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> and <pause dur="1.1"/> you can see <pause dur="0.4"/> table seven-point-one <pause dur="0.7"/> the the numbers are not in order 'cause i just took

this from her thesis in actual fact <pause dur="0.6"/> you can see down here <pause dur="0.4"/> that this is # <pause dur="0.6"/> # # a yes-no test <pause dur="0.3"/> for technical <pause dur="0.2"/> vocabulary <pause dur="0.4"/> can anyone <pause dur="0.3"/> <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/><pause dur="0.3"/> recognize which the made-up words <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>are<shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> <pause dur="1.0"/> i'm not sure if i <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/> can actually <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="1.1"/> can you see she's made some of those words are made up <pause dur="0.7"/> can anyone </u><pause dur="1.2"/> <u who="sf1323" trans="pause"> is # circumhinge </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> i think circumhinge is made up yes </u><pause dur="0.7"/> <u who="sm1324" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> but you cannot be sure <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>can you <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/></u><u who="ss" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible, multiple speakers" extent="2 secs"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>because there's a very funny <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/></u><u who="sf1325" trans="overlap"> i i i would say that <pause dur="0.4"/> if somebody said to me what's a circumhinge i could imagine on a car or a piece of machinery <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>whatever <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/><shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yes yes <pause dur="0.4"/> yeah <pause dur="0.2"/> it's difficult to make up words isn't it <pause dur="0.5"/> it is difficult <pause dur="0.4"/> # and <pause dur="0.3"/> that's that could be a criticism of this type of test because <pause dur="0.6"/> when you see a a made-up word <pause dur="0.2"/> you're being asked whether you recognize it and you could say well <pause dur="0.2"/> you know i can imagine what it might be so yes </u><u who="sf1325" trans="overlap"> mm </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap">

i recognize it <pause dur="0.3"/> she used the same <pause dur="0.2"/> system of scoring as the E-V-S-T test did <pause dur="0.2"/> in other words if someone <pause dur="0.2"/> i think a <pause dur="0.2"/> i think circumhinge is made up <pause dur="0.4"/> if someone said that they recognized that word <pause dur="0.4"/> then <pause dur="0.4"/> they would lose <pause dur="0.3"/> marks on their overall score <pause dur="0.2"/> because it's made up <pause dur="0.5"/> does that make sense to everybody <pause dur="0.4"/> yeah </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sf1325" trans="pause"> yes </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> # <pause dur="0.4"/> and you can see at the bottom <pause dur="0.4"/> what her scores <pause dur="0.2"/> came to <pause dur="1.2"/> what what do we conclude anyone <pause dur="0.2"/> looking at that bottom comparison of subtechnical and technical scores <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>c</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> can <pause dur="0.2"/> can anyone volunteer what conclusion she reached <pause dur="0.2"/> on that </u><u who="sf1326" trans="pause"> that <pause dur="0.5"/> what well you always thought is <pause dur="0.2"/> it's completely opposite <pause dur="0.6"/> to what her results show in that students <pause dur="1.0"/> don't know as many technical terms as they do subtechnical terms and we spend more time <pause dur="0.5"/> teaching subtechnical <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>terms <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/>when we really shouldn't be </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> yeah </u><u who="sf1326" trans="latching"> if the results <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/></u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yes <pause dur="0.2"/> yes <pause dur="0.3"/> not a popular <pause dur="0.4"/> #<vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="1"/> </u><u who="sf1326" trans="overlap"> no but </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap">

not a popular finding i don't know whether <pause dur="0.3"/> anyone will follow this up <pause dur="0.9"/> # <trunc>i</trunc> of course E-A-P teachers don't like it because we don't know how to teach words like # <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>prop</trunc> polypropylene <pause dur="0.3"/> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="sl" dur="1"/><pause dur="0.5"/> # and <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>i</trunc> <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="1.9"/> it also engineering teachers don't lecturers don't like it because <pause dur="0.2"/> they've spent <trunc>i</trunc> i mean the this test took place towards the end of their <trunc>e</trunc> M-S-C programme <pause dur="0.7"/> in fact at the end of the taught course <pause dur="0.5"/> so it's a bit worrying for the engineering lecturers <pause dur="0.3"/> when when <pause dur="0.3"/> we passed back the scores to them <pause dur="0.3"/> they were a bit taken aback <pause dur="0.6"/> because they said oh well you can't actually <pause dur="0.2"/> pass this module without recognizing the word <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/> polypropylene <pause dur="0.4"/> <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> and yet there were students who didn't recognize it <pause dur="0.3"/> and <pause dur="0.6"/> had passed </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sf1327" trans="pause"> i i think it's very interesting for teachers who are going into the companies to teach </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause">

mm </u><u who="sf1327" trans="latching"> the people <pause dur="0.2"/> who are doing it at the time </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> mm </u><u who="sf1327" trans="overlap"> 'cause <pause dur="0.3"/> we do tend to concentrate <pause dur="0.7"/> on the subtechnical because they say <pause dur="0.3"/> oh the technical terms are international we know them but <pause dur="0.3"/> obviously <pause dur="0.3"/> that doesn't follow so i i think </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> well it <pause dur="0.2"/> it depends i mean it it could be true for your students in your <pause dur="0.2"/> in that firm </u><u who="sf1327" trans="overlap"> yes </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # <trunc>y</trunc> it's <pause dur="0.2"/> it would be interesting to find out i mean if you could do that kind of research <pause dur="0.6"/> that would be very i mean it'd be interesting for a a dissertation </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sf1327" trans="pause"> yeah </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> you know if <pause dur="0.5"/> course you'd have to get your corpus that's the thing </u><u who="sf1327" trans="overlap"> right </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # <pause dur="0.3"/> but <trunc>nowaday</trunc> it's getting easier and easier to make corpora for <trunc>w</trunc> because there's it's easier to scan in and <pause dur="0.4"/> # we have more access to digital <pause dur="0.5"/> recordings and so on <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="2.8"/> the next one i

wanted to show you <pause dur="0.2"/> 'cause <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>m</trunc> </u><u who="sf1328" trans="overlap"> sorry i was just going to ask # were there any replies to these results <pause dur="0.2"/> because if </u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> # </u><u who="sf1328" trans="overlap"> i mean if they are </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> we <pause dur="0.2"/> # </u><u who="sf1328" trans="latching"> correct then <pause dur="0.2"/> then it's <pause dur="0.3"/> you know it's quite <pause dur="0.5"/> fundamentally important </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> well we didn't want to press it too hard on the Engineering department in case they # <pause dur="0.3"/> they got angry but <pause dur="0.2"/> we <trunc>d</trunc> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> we did send the results out to # the Engineering department and <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>g</trunc> we recorded some responses from engineering lecturers <pause dur="0.3"/> and they said <pause dur="1.5"/> students ought to <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>know <pause dur="0.2"/> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> these words <pause dur="0.4"/> they were listening in class <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/><pause dur="0.4"/> <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> they didn't read the they obviously didn't read the set text <pause dur="0.6"/> <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/></u><u who="sf1328" trans="overlap"> but i mean other <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> responses from other academics in the field i mean has anybody sort of <trunc>s</trunc> <pause dur="0.5"/> said well you know </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> well in actual fact this <trunc>o</trunc> this paper was given at a conference a few years back and # <pause dur="0.6"/> <trunc>th</trunc> but but because of the slow pace of things in <pause dur="0.5"/> publishing <pause dur="0.4"/> and <pause dur="0.3"/> just general <pause dur="0.7"/><shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>apathy <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/>

</u><pause dur="0.2"/> <u who="sf1328" trans="pause"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> published </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> # the the <trunc>c</trunc> the conference collection the <trunc>p</trunc> conference proceedings are <trunc>no</trunc> are are haven't actually been published yet they're about to <pause dur="0.4"/> they're about to come out <pause dur="1.0"/> but i don't know what response it will receive # # you know things take a long time to trickle through and maybe it will never trickle through and maybe it will just be drop <pause dur="0.3"/> a drop in the ocean never <pause dur="0.3"/> never be heard of again <pause dur="1.3"/> these <pause dur="1.1"/> you know <pause dur="0.7"/> it's <pause dur="0.8"/> so there you are that's that's the fate of research <unclear># don't know if</unclear> you if you're here for research methodology <pause dur="0.3"/> you think you've discovered something wonderful <pause dur="0.2"/> you get it published somewhere <pause dur="0.2"/> and no one ever reads it <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>and no one ever hears it<shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/><pause dur="0.2"/> or the opposite could happen you could be made you could become famous on the strength of it <pause dur="1.1"/> <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> we just

don't know what's <trunc>w</trunc> <trunc>w</trunc> what response it does take a long time my <pause dur="0.4"/> # <trunc>w</trunc> when i did my PhD the <trunc>s</trunc> my supervisor said <pause dur="0.2"/> allow a ten year <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>cir</trunc> circle before <pause dur="0.3"/> your <pause dur="0.2"/> before what you have <pause dur="0.2"/> actually <pause dur="0.6"/> # this is in the field of applied linguistics <pause dur="0.3"/> from the time when you conduct the experiment <pause dur="0.2"/> to the time when people actually come up to you and say <pause dur="0.4"/> oh you know i've cited your work in my paper <pause dur="0.4"/> allow a ten year turnaround time <pause dur="0.9"/> because you have to think of it <pause dur="0.3"/> then you write it up <pause dur="0.6"/> then you get it published that's about three or four years <pause dur="0.3"/> and then <pause dur="0.2"/> people have to find it <pause dur="0.2"/> read it <pause dur="0.2"/> think about it <pause dur="0.2"/> think about their own experimental designs <pause dur="0.4"/> and then they publish and people are alerted to yours and it <pause dur="0.2"/> it <pause dur="0.3"/> it really is quite a slow process <pause dur="1.8"/> shouldn't be should it but that but research is <pause dur="1.0"/> so sometimes when they announce <pause dur="0.2"/> on # on the radio or on television that there's been a new medical breakthrough <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="0.9"/> don't believe that it happened that day <pause dur="0.3"/> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="sl" dur="1"/><pause dur="0.3"/>

it it probably <pause dur="0.4"/> someone started thinking about it ten years previously <pause dur="0.3"/> and they're just <pause dur="0.5"/> it's been through a very slow process of being presented at conferences discussed <pause dur="0.5"/> published in its <pause dur="0.5"/> in a a small form in a journal <pause dur="0.3"/> then going back and <pause dur="0.3"/> to revision somebody else has picked it up <pause dur="0.3"/> it only appears on the news that day because they're short of news <pause dur="0.7"/> not because <kinesic desc="clicks fingers" iterated="n"/> that's the day when <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/> <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>everyone discovered the truth <pause dur="0.4"/> <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> # <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="1"/> <pause dur="0.9"/> # # <pause dur="0.9"/> here's another <trunc>qu</trunc> quick one this is this i thought you'd be interested in this because <kinesic desc="turns on overhead projector showing transparency" iterated="n"/> it's # <pause dur="0.3"/> it's from a student who actually did his M-A last he did his dissertation last summer <pause dur="0.2"/> who did the M-A last year Alistair Van Moere <pause dur="0.8"/> and # <pause dur="0.5"/> he was interested <pause dur="0.3"/> in <pause dur="1.0"/> completely different <trunc>no</trunc> not E-S-P at all he was interested in children <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> and <pause dur="0.4"/> how children learn vocabulary <pause dur="0.4"/> from reading <pause dur="0.7"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> his <pause dur="0.3"/> # thesis was <pause dur="0.4"/> that if you could <pause dur="0.2"/> give <pause dur="0.4"/> children <pause dur="0.3"/> books <pause dur="0.5"/> with glosses <pause dur="0.2"/> in the margin

to explain difficult words <pause dur="0.6"/> they would learn the vocabulary in these books much more easily <pause dur="0.2"/> than if you <pause dur="0.7"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>i</trunc> they would learn vocabulary much more easily than if you either gave them # <pause dur="0.4"/> a <trunc>s</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> a simplified reader we discussed a little bit simplified readers last week didn't we <pause dur="0.5"/> or if you gave them <pause dur="0.2"/> the original work without a gloss <pause dur="0.8"/> right <pause dur="0.2"/> so we've got <pause dur="0.2"/> normally we've got two choices when we're giving these these children were aged about sixteen seventeen <pause dur="0.3"/> and they were at an international school in Britain <pause dur="0.4"/> preparing for exams <pause dur="0.2"/> with <trunc>i</trunc> with a view to going on to British universities <pause dur="0.5"/> and <pause dur="0.5"/> they were being set the book Animal Farm <pause dur="0.4"/> to read <pause dur="1.1"/> and # <pause dur="0.5"/> there were two choices you either gave them the simplified reader <pause dur="0.5"/> or you gave them the original <pause dur="0.4"/> and Alistair said well if we could <pause dur="0.5"/> if if publishers would <pause dur="0.2"/> start producing <pause dur="0.3"/> versions of these books with a gloss <pause dur="0.6"/> he thought <pause dur="0.5"/> that would be much more beneficial <pause dur="0.2"/> for this type of student <pause dur="0.5"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/> he wanted to find out whether people

with a who read the version with a gloss <pause dur="0.2"/> learned more vocabulary than people who read the original <pause dur="0.8"/> but first of all he had to find out which words they did or didn't know <pause dur="0.3"/> in Animal Farm <pause dur="0.4"/> so he took a chapter of Animal Farm <pause dur="0.4"/> took all the words this is just the first page of his test <pause dur="0.6"/> took all the # <pause dur="0.5"/> took all the words <pause dur="0.5"/> that he thought were difficult <pause dur="0.5"/> i think he probably <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>m</trunc> made reference to a frequency list for this <pause dur="0.7"/> can't remember <pause dur="0.5"/> and # <pause dur="0.5"/> listed them <trunc>i</trunc> you see this this <pause dur="0.7"/> i think he probably in order of occurrence <pause dur="0.3"/> in the text <pause dur="0.5"/> and he they the students had to say whether they recognized them yes or no <pause dur="0.8"/> so you see this is just the first stage in the experimental design <pause dur="0.7"/> once he had found out <pause dur="0.2"/> which words nobody knew <pause dur="1.3"/> then he <trunc>ha</trunc> he obviously couldn't gloss all the words in the <trunc>t</trunc> all the difficult words in the text there were too many there would have been <pause dur="0.3"/> hundreds of glosses there would have been more gloss than text <pause dur="0.4"/> so he <pause dur="0.3"/> just <pause dur="0.3"/>

<trunc>t</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> picked out those words which none of the students <pause dur="0.5"/> that he was looking at knew <pause dur="0.8"/> and he glossed those <pause dur="0.8"/> and this is what his paper looked like <pause dur="0.2"/> he didn't he didn't use # made-up words <pause dur="0.9"/> because <pause dur="0.4"/> it wasn't the students understood it wasn't a test they weren't being judged in any way <pause dur="0.6"/> didn't think it was <trunc>ne</trunc> i don't think he used any made-up words <pause dur="0.5"/><kinesic desc="changes transparency" iterated="y" dur="2"/> this is the text <pause dur="0.3"/> # # <pause dur="0.3"/> this is the first page of the <trunc>ch</trunc> of # chapter one of Animal Farm <pause dur="0.4"/><kinesic desc="indicates point on transparency" iterated="n"/> these are the glosses he put in the margin <pause dur="0.4"/> he gave half the subjects <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.8"/> <kinesic desc="indicates point on transparency" iterated="n"/> this version <pause dur="0.6"/> with the glosses <pause dur="0.5"/> and he gave the other half <pause dur="0.6"/> # the same text without any glosses <pause dur="1.5"/> yeah <pause dur="0.9"/><kinesic desc="changes transparency" iterated="y" dur="11"/> and they read it <pause dur="0.5"/> and then afterwards he gave them a series of # <pause dur="0.6"/> tests <pause dur="0.6"/> to see <pause dur="1.1"/> # <pause dur="0.6"/> to see <trunc>w</trunc> <trunc>whe</trunc> <trunc>w</trunc> how many of those words they'd learned <pause dur="1.3"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> and some some of the tests were of <kinesic desc="indicates point on transparency" iterated="n"/> this type where they had to <pause dur="0.3"/> place <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> the <trunc>w</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> the glossed words back into <pause dur="0.2"/> the gapped text <pause dur="0.8"/> # <pause dur="0.5"/> but we argued we said well it's not really just about

learning those words is it <pause dur="0.2"/> it's also about general comprehension <pause dur="0.3"/> so he tested them for general comprehension as well <kinesic desc="changes transparency" iterated="y" dur="2"/> # # <pause dur="0.6"/> he asked them things like # <pause dur="0.4"/> the pig making a speech is Old Major how does he feel about man <pause dur="0.4"/> you know <pause dur="0.2"/> so those were sort of general comprehension questions on the basis of the first chapter <pause dur="0.7"/> right <pause dur="0.5"/> and what do you think the results were </u><pause dur="2.2"/> <u who="sf1329" trans="pause"> <vocal desc="clears throat" iterated="n"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> well the <pause dur="0.2"/> the students who had the gloss had a higher rate of <pause dur="1.0"/> higher understanding than the students who hadn't </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yes </u><u who="sf1329" trans="overlap"> the gloss </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> yes <pause dur="0.3"/> yeah <pause dur="0.4"/> they <trunc>l</trunc> they remembered more words <pause dur="0.9"/> they and they <pause dur="0.6"/> could answer the comprehension better <pause dur="0.4"/> so it was all part of his argument it's a nice piece of research isn't it because i don't think there's anything <pause dur="0.4"/> any other existing piece of research that's that shows this <pause dur="0.2"/> although there

has been an a tremendous amount of research into <pause dur="0.5"/> # reading and vocabulary <pause dur="0.4"/> i don't think there's been anything quite like that before </u><pause dur="0.4"/> <u who="sf1330" trans="pause"> they remembered and understood </u><pause dur="0.5"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> yes yes <pause dur="0.2"/> they scored better all round <pause dur="0.2"/> they scored better on comprehension <pause dur="0.3"/> and they scored better on <pause dur="0.2"/> being <trunc>b</trunc> able to place those words in the text <pause dur="0.7"/> and and they actually at one they are also asked here <kinesic desc="indicates point on transparency" iterated="n"/><pause dur="0.4"/> to write it # the meanings <pause dur="0.3"/> so this <trunc>c</trunc> idea of learning from context <trunc>w</trunc> we all know that <pause dur="0.2"/> you can pick up words from context but <pause dur="0.4"/> it's <pause dur="0.2"/> as we said at the beginning of the last lecture do you remember <pause dur="0.5"/> how many words a native speaker child learns <pause dur="0.6"/> per day for all of their <pause dur="0.2"/> childhood <pause dur="0.5"/> we have to try and speed up that process don't we there just isn't time <pause dur="0.4"/> to let people learn from context <pause dur="0.6"/> there wouldn't <pause dur="0.2"/> you know 'cause

they've got so many words to make up if they're going to compete <pause dur="0.5"/> with native speakers <pause dur="1.1"/> # <pause dur="2.0"/> okay i'll just give <trunc>ha</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> i'll give you one more handout <pause dur="1.9"/> or two more handouts <pause dur="2.4"/><event desc="passes out handouts" iterated="n"/> yeah <pause dur="1.7"/> so far <pause dur="0.3"/> we've just been thinking about <pause dur="0.4"/> in fact i'll take can i have one <pause dur="5.6"/> # so far i've just been talking about testing people on word recognition <pause dur="0.7"/> well <pause dur="0.2"/> just just started talking about <pause dur="0.4"/> but many of you would be unhappy with that in fact # <pause dur="0.4"/> who was it who was saying is it productive <pause dur="0.7"/> was it <trunc>y</trunc> was it <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> or yeah <pause dur="0.4"/> yes <pause dur="0.2"/> i mean that that's a whole new question isn't it <pause dur="0.3"/> this there's <pause dur="0.6"/> # <trunc>be</trunc> # it's one thing in being able to recognize a word <pause dur="0.3"/> it's quite another to really be able to say you know <pause dur="0.3"/> that word <pause dur="0.8"/> in fact <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> it's a cline like everything is in applied linguistics isn't it <pause dur="0.3"/> it's there's not just a yes or a no answer to whether you know a word <pause dur="0.4"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> all of us in our first languages too <pause dur="0.5"/> we know words words to

varying extents <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>s</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> on the first on one side you've got knowing a word haven't you </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="sf1331" trans="pause"> mm </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> <unclear>yeah</unclear> <pause dur="0.4"/> and that's just if we'd had time i would have asked you what you thought knowing a word meant but there isn't time <pause dur="0.7"/> so <pause dur="0.4"/> just have a quick look at that <pause dur="1.2"/> # <pause dur="1.7"/> you may be able to think of more aspects to knowing a word than are listed here <pause dur="5.3"/> so there are many many <pause dur="1.4"/> there are many many # <pause dur="1.8"/> aspects to knowing a word <pause dur="0.6"/> and <pause dur="0.6"/> there are many words in English which i <pause dur="0.7"/> can recognize <pause dur="0.3"/> but i can't <pause dur="0.2"/> answer all <kinesic desc="indicates point on handout" iterated="n"/> those questions about and i'm sure that's true for everyone here for their first language <pause dur="0.4"/> as well as any other languages they may know <pause dur="1.9"/> in fact i heard on the radio they were interviewing someone <pause dur="0.5"/> and they said <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>y</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> he said oh i <trunc>w</trunc> i <trunc>we</trunc> i studied languages <pause dur="0.4"/> and the interviewer said <pause dur="0.3"/> well did you learn <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>them <vocal desc="laugh" iterated="n"/> <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.2"/> i thought what a stupid question because <pause dur="0.2"/> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="sl" dur="1"/> <pause dur="0.3"/> i mean the you don't just sort of say oh i've learned it <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>now that's the end <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="ss" dur="1"/><pause dur="0.3"/> because everything is ongoing

<shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>isn't it you're <pause dur="0.3"/><shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> you're learning more and more all the time in <trunc>ev</trunc> in every language <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="2.2"/> so <pause dur="0.3"/><vocal desc="clears throat" iterated="n"/><pause dur="1.6"/> over the page <pause dur="0.5"/> you've got <pause dur="0.4"/> a suggestion for an interview format <pause dur="0.4"/> if you were trying to find out <pause dur="0.3"/> how much word knowledge <pause dur="0.6"/> an interviewee had <pause dur="0.7"/> yeah <pause dur="0.7"/> and you can see it's a much more complex business than simply saying do you recognize this word yes no <pause dur="1.0"/> and if as <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> was suggesting you wanted to find out about the productive knowledge <pause dur="0.3"/> of <pause dur="0.3"/> for example <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/> <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/>'s subjects <pause dur="0.5"/> in the Engineering department <pause dur="0.2"/> you'd have to <pause dur="0.8"/> <trunc>y</trunc> ideally <pause dur="0.3"/> you'd get them all <pause dur="0.3"/> in <trunc>sh</trunc> she <pause dur="0.2"/> she # she asked hundreds <pause dur="0.4"/> of students i mean it would <trunc>ta</trunc> be <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>very long <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/><pause dur="0.3"/> drawn out process wouldn't it it # <pause dur="0.2"/> hundreds of words for hundreds of students you'd <pause dur="0.4"/> <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>you know you'd be <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> take years and years and years but that i mean that would be the ideal <pause dur="0.9"/> and so just before we stop <pause dur="0.3"/> does # anyone got any questions on <kinesic desc="indicates handout" iterated="n"/> this do you do you understand <pause dur="0.2"/> it in principle <pause dur="2.1"/> someone <pause dur="0.6"/> <trunc>o</trunc> here <pause dur="0.2"/> might be interested in doing # <pause dur="0.7"/> a

piece of research of this nature <pause dur="0.3"/> with a group of subjects for their dissertation <pause dur="1.0"/> no i mean <pause dur="0.2"/> you'd have <pause dur="0.3"/> on a small scale that certainly would be an interesting experiment wouldn't it <pause dur="0.3"/> to find out <pause dur="0.4"/> in depth <trunc>voco</trunc> vocabulary knowledge for a small number of subjects following <kinesic desc="indicates point on handout" iterated="n"/> this sort of model <pause dur="2.1"/> # <pause dur="1.3"/> i'll just hand i'll give you one more <pause dur="0.6"/> handout <pause dur="1.1"/> because <pause dur="1.0"/><event desc="passes out handouts" iterated="n"/> # this is an experiment <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>f</trunc> <pause dur="0.6"/> someone called # <trunc>corso</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> i can't remember his first name <pause dur="1.0"/> David <pause dur="0.3"/> David Corson <pause dur="1.1"/> # <pause dur="0.6"/> who was <pause dur="0.2"/> he wasn't working with # <pause dur="1.1"/> he wasn't working with <pause dur="0.8"/> non-native speakers David Corson writes about <pause dur="0.2"/> native speakers of English <pause dur="0.6"/> and he has <pause dur="0.4"/> a kind of bee in his bonnet about class <pause dur="0.9"/> # <trunc>i</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> and he argues that <pause dur="2.2"/> children whose <pause dur="0.3"/> families <pause dur="0.2"/> don't belong to the class where <pause dur="0.4"/> Greek and Latin <pause dur="0.2"/> was taught in the past <pause dur="0.5"/> are disadvantaged throughout their educational lives <pause dur="0.4"/> and that is why he says in <pause dur="0.4"/> English speaking countries <pause dur="0.2"/> lower class working class children <pause dur="0.4"/> don't succeed <pause dur="0.4"/> academically on the whole <pause dur="0.7"/> this this is his thesis <pause dur="0.6"/> he says <pause dur="0.2"/> the real reason is

because they don't have <pause dur="0.2"/> subtechnical vocabulary the kind of vocabulary we saw on <gap reason="name" extent="1 word"/>'s list words like elude and what were they <pause dur="0.5"/> elude and </u><u who="sf1332" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/></u><pause dur="0.9"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> can you remember </u><u who="ss" trans="overlap"> <gap reason="inaudible" extent="1 sec"/> ensure </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> ensure it wasn't elude was it ensure <pause dur="0.6"/> but those kind of words he said <pause dur="0.3"/> if you come from a kind of home where for generations your parents and your grandparents and so on <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>ha</trunc> have had access to <trunc>gr</trunc> Greco-Latin words classical languages <pause dur="0.4"/> then you learn these words in childhood <pause dur="0.5"/> but if you come from a background where your parents and your grandparents were not educated in this tradition <pause dur="0.3"/> you don't <trunc>lea</trunc> learn these words at home <pause dur="0.3"/> and therefore <pause dur="0.2"/> you can't <pause dur="0.3"/> succeed very at <pause dur="0.5"/> at <pause dur="1.0"/> in your exams at upper secondary and <trunc>a</trunc> <trunc>a</trunc> at university <pause dur="0.3"/> and so <pause dur="0.3"/> that's that's his argument now it's a very contentious one <pause dur="0.4"/> but he has this kind of <pause dur="0.2"/> he <trunc>ha</trunc> you you see on the right-hand side column <pause dur="0.6"/>

he's got # <pause dur="1.3"/> <trunc>i</trunc> <trunc>i</trunc> they're called G-L words Greco-Latin words right words from so <kinesic desc="indicates members of audience" iterated="n"/> you Greeks will be fine you <pause dur="0.2"/> <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="sl" dur="1"/> you'll you'll you haven't got any problems at all in fact on the whole <pause dur="0.3"/> non-native speakers don't have problems with this because they learn Greco-Latin words just as <pause dur="0.3"/> quickly as Anglo-Saxon words <pause dur="0.3"/> it's native speakers who speak <pause dur="1.8"/> without these words in the home that have the problems </u><u who="sf1333" trans="latching"> but doesn't doesn't that <pause dur="0.4"/> contradict then exactly what he's <pause dur="0.4"/> he's saying </u><pause dur="1.2"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> <trunc>n</trunc> <pause dur="0.3"/> # well he's not talking about non-native speakers <pause dur="0.2"/> he's talking about native speakers </u><u who="sf1333" trans="overlap"> right </u><u who="nf1292" trans="latching"> he's saying <pause dur="0.4"/> if you come from <pause dur="0.2"/> a working class family where <pause dur="0.3"/> nobody uses words like <pause dur="0.9"/> # <pause dur="0.2"/> what were the words <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" dur="1"/></u><u who="ss" trans="latching"> ensure </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> ensure </u><u who="ss" trans="overlap"> fundamental </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> fundamental <pause dur="0.3"/> <trunc>y</trunc> you know <pause dur="0.3"/> # <pause dur="0.3"/> then <pause dur="1.6"/> your family won't use those words because <trunc>n</trunc> <pause dur="0.4"/> they didn't

go to grammar school <pause dur="0.5"/> they didn't study Latin and Greek and so on and neither did your grandparents <pause dur="0.2"/> and that means that you <pause dur="0.3"/> you you <pause dur="0.2"/> you come into secondary and tertiary education without those words <pause dur="0.4"/> and you can't write your assignments <pause dur="0.4"/> well <pause dur="0.6"/> and <pause dur="0.2"/> you can't express <pause dur="0.5"/> # <pause dur="0.4"/> abstract thought <pause dur="0.5"/> very successfully because these are the words that carry <pause dur="0.3"/> the argument is that these are the words that carry abstract <pause dur="0.3"/> thought <pause dur="0.4"/> hypotheses <pause dur="0.8"/> you know <pause dur="0.3"/> mental processes <pause dur="0.7"/> right very difficult words to teach <pause dur="0.5"/> you know how do you teach a word like ensure it's much more difficult than words like <pause dur="0.4"/> well polymer <pause dur="0.5"/> polymer's an easier word to teach than ensure isn't it i think <pause dur="1.0"/> if i knew <shift feature="voice" new="laugh"/>what it was <shift feature="voice" new="normal"/> <pause dur="0.4"/> # <vocal desc="laughter" iterated="y" n="sl" dur="1"/> <pause dur="0.6"/> # <pause dur="1.4"/> is you can see here <trunc>w</trunc> here's an argument # # on the <pause dur="0.2"/> <trunc>r</trunc> right-hand column he's saying that <pause dur="0.4"/> in philosophy of education forty per cent of words how he reaches these figures i'm not sure <pause dur="0.4"/> are oh it's a hundred a random <unclear>hashes</unclear>

</u><u who="sm1334" trans="overlap"> yeah </u><u who="nf1292" trans="overlap"> of a hundred consecutive words that's right <pause dur="0.3"/> forty per cent of the words were Greco-Latin <pause dur="0.4"/> so if you're a working class kid who decides they want to do philosophy of education according to David Corson <pause dur="0.2"/> you don't stand a chance <pause dur="1.0"/> # <pause dur="0.9"/> right but children's fiction has none <pause dur="0.7"/> ages five to six <pause dur="1.1"/> okay <pause dur="0.3"/> and what he did was <pause dur="0.3"/> he <trunc>w</trunc> he tried to find out the productive knowledge of the children <pause dur="0.4"/> by going out and doing a bit of this oral <pause dur="0.6"/> interviewing <pause dur="0.6"/> and <pause dur="0.3"/> the words <pause dur="0.2"/> # in table one <pause dur="2.0"/> <trunc>i</trunc> he wanted to find out whether they could produce sentences <pause dur="0.2"/> with divide in them for example <pause dur="0.3"/> and he gave them <pause dur="1.0"/> two words one was the word he was testing and the other was the kind of # <pause dur="0.3"/> the carrier word <pause dur="0.3"/> so he said make a sentence using divide and fifty <pause dur="1.6"/> and on the basis of what they said he was able to judge whether they <pause dur="0.3"/> had productive knowledge of that <trunc>gre</trunc> <pause dur="0.5"/> Greco-Latin word <pause dur="0.5"/> very time-consuming <pause dur="0.4"/> rather subjective <pause dur="0.8"/> when you when you # <pause dur="0.5"/> # look at research <trunc>method</trunc> <pause dur="0.2"/> methods for quantitative <pause dur="0.5"/> <trunc>st</trunc> # <pause dur="0.3"/>

qualitative sorry studies <pause dur="0.5"/> you will hear about <pause dur="1.1"/> the problems with <pause dur="0.2"/> ensuring the validity of qualitative data <pause dur="0.2"/> you you know you'd have to have <pause dur="0.4"/> a second marker or possibly a third marker <pause dur="0.3"/> and you'd have to compare <pause dur="0.3"/> to see whether you agree this a complex process it's </u><pause dur="0.3"/> <u who="sf1335" trans="pause"> yes </u><pause dur="0.6"/> <u who="nf1292" trans="pause"> but that way you're sort of building up a picture of productive knowledge it's much more difficult than for <trunc>pres</trunc> receptive i think <pause dur="2.3"/> okay i'll have to stop there then

</u></body>

</text></TEI.2>