1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Dear listeners, welcome to the Mothers in academia podcast series. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,000 My name is Cagla and I'm a PhD student at the University of Warwick. 3 00:00:11,000 --> 00:00:14,000 I'm also a mum of an eight year old boy. 4 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:22,000 Today we have Professor Pinter, who is the head of the Applied Linguistics Department at the University of Warwick, 5 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:28,000 an award-winning author of the book Engaging Children in Applied Linguistics Research, and the mother of two. 6 00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,000 Anna Maria, welcome to our podcast series. 7 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,000 Thank you very much. 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:42,000 So in addition to your achievements as an academic, you have been supervising female PhD students over the years. 9 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:49,000 Today we'd like to talk about the challenges they face and what you have done to overcome these challenges as a supervisor, 10 00:00:49,000 --> 00:00:55,000 so that this could be an inspiration to the other female PhD students with parenting responsibilities. 11 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:57,000 Okay, perfect. 12 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:08,000 So this might start like a silly question, but from your experience, do you think there is a best time to do your PhD or to have children? 13 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:14,000 Well, certainly not. There's never a best time for anything. 14 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:22,000 I guess you do your PhD when you've got the opportunity and you have children when it's right in your personal life. 15 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:26,000 So for many people these two can overlap. 16 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:34,000 And even though I had my son 25 years ago, I also had him in the middle of my PhD. 17 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:40,000 And I remember it still very well how challenging it was. 18 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:46,000 And it was at this university, but 25 years ago life was very different here. 19 00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:53,000 I think things have improved and there's perhaps more support available and more flexibility. 20 00:01:53,000 --> 00:02:06,000 But at the time I managed it. It wasn't easy, but I managed it and I can share some of those strategies that I used if they're useful to you. 21 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:11,000 That's wonderful. We'd love to hear that. So what works for you really? 22 00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:24,000 So I guess one thing that was really difficult for me was that neither my husband nor me had any help whatsoever. 23 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,000 No families, no close friends that we could have left a small child with. 24 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:38,000 So as soon as my son was able to go to nursery, I remember he wasn't even able to walk yet. 25 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,000 He was 10 months old or 11 months old or something like that. 26 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:51,000 And we lived in Kenilworth and we managed to find the nursery place in Leamington Spa, which is quite far away. 27 00:02:51,000 --> 00:03:01,000 And he was only allowed to go three mornings. So from 9 to 12, not five, three mornings. 28 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:11,000 So I started out by just having that time, you know, 9 to 12, three mornings a week. 29 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:19,000 And of course I was worried about him and I thought he was far too young to be in that nursery, but he seemed to be okay. 30 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:25,000 So I had no choice but to settle down to do my work. 31 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:34,000 And I had to, of course, drive him every day. And by the time I drove there and then drove back home and settled down, I realized I lost an hour. 32 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,000 So this wasn't good. 33 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:43,000 So then I found a cafe which was across from the nursery on the corner. 34 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:50,000 And I still remember today the kinds of books that I read there and the notes that I took. 35 00:03:50,000 --> 00:04:03,000 And I remember that the intensity with which I could work because I knew that I only had those few hours to focus on. 36 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:10,000 Because once I picked him up and we went back home, there was no hope even when he fell asleep for me to do anything. 37 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:21,000 But I guess in many ways it taught me to focus and it taught me to use the time 110%. 38 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:31,000 And had I just gone to the library for an ordinary day, I probably would have chatted, I would have arrived late, I would have spent time in the cafe, 39 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:39,000 you know, just drinking and daydreaming and I would have probably not devoted myself fully to it. 40 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:49,000 So I still today believe that if you've got three times four hours in a week and nothing more, you can still achieve an awful lot. 41 00:04:49,000 --> 00:05:00,000 And you shouldn't castigate yourself or kill yourself, you know, trying to do two more hours at midnight or something like that because it's just too much. 42 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:08,000 So I'm a great believer of using regular time but very, very intensively and efficiently. 43 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:12,000 But then that becomes a real advantage. 44 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:19,000 All of a sudden, you know, you turn the disadvantages into an advantage and that really works well. 45 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:28,000 And if you see other members of staff around the corridor, you will almost know who had the same sort of problem. 46 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:40,000 Because those are the people who are able to put their head down either for half an hour and just achieve something rather than sort of get ready and, you know, take the time. 47 00:05:40,000 --> 00:05:45,000 So I do remember that that helped me a lot. 48 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:52,000 And then also, I guess, occasionally I was away to take longer breaks. 49 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:59,000 So I remember around Christmas time or Easter time when we went and visited my husband's family. 50 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,000 I worked in my mother-in-law's greenhouse. 51 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:13,000 So that was also great because I could have two, three, four intensive days just working on whatever I needed to do. 52 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:30,000 And they're very memorable and I do, I still today I do enjoy working in cafes or places where, you know, you're just locked in for a certain amount of time and you're on your own and no one's going to bother you and no one's going to interrupt you. 53 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:34,000 Not everybody likes it, of course. Everybody's different. 54 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,000 But I always like variety. 55 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:43,000 And as long as I've got a space and some time, I can just get on with it for a few hours. 56 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:46,000 Exactly. And that focus really ticks. 57 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:56,000 I know how it is. Even for a few minutes sometimes you just get to focus and do your work and you put something aside. 58 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,000 That's wonderful. Thank you. 59 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:08,000 What about the students you have supervised over the years, especially female students with parenting responsibilities? 60 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:14,000 Can you describe a time when you supervise a female PhD student with children? 61 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,000 How did her caregiving responsibilities affect her academic journey? 62 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,000 Was it similar to yours or different? 63 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:29,000 So I've had quite a few female students who had children. I even had students who left children behind. 64 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,000 So came here from another country and left children behind. 65 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:37,000 And I think that's just a suffocate. It's almost unbearable. 66 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:46,000 Again, times have changed nowadays. You can see your children and talk to your children online, even if that happens. 67 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:55,000 But back 15-20 years ago that wasn't the case. So it was extremely difficult. 68 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:01,000 And of course if your children are struggling or not happy, then you can't work. It's not possible. 69 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:11,000 So you need to just take time out and make sure that you sort out your own feelings and you deal with your children's issues and problems. 70 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:22,000 So I've also had students who came, brought children and their children didn't settle in local schools or not very well, not very quickly, not very easily. 71 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:33,000 So those parents of course needed to prioritise their children because only when their children were happy, they could then get on with their own work. 72 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,000 That's so true here. 73 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:49,000 So when we talk about the unique challenges the female PhD students face, can you compare them with those, their peers, without caregiving responsibilities? 74 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:52,000 Have you noticed any differences? 75 00:08:53,000 --> 00:09:02,000 Well yes, of course. So those who have got other responsibilities need to be much more organised and their time is much more limited. 76 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:13,000 And they can't do certain activities like they can't join a class, for example when it's time to drop off your children or to pick them up. 77 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:26,000 Or you may have a parents' evening or something like that that is still way more important than joining the rest of your friendship group for a party or get together of some kind. 78 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:31,000 So it's a constant juggling of different responsibilities. 79 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:43,000 But I guess I have noticed that students who bring families are more organised and think about their time much more carefully. 80 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Because it doesn't mean that they can't socialise with the other students. 81 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:59,000 And sometimes they make really good friends with other students and then also they can actually use those connections to develop special relationships 82 00:09:59,000 --> 00:10:05,000 and maybe get those friends to look after the children on an informal basis. 83 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,000 I mean that happens as well. 84 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:20,000 So it could be a very good thing for both the children and a student who's got a good friend, colleague who can also sort of help out a little bit. 85 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,000 Why not? 86 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:26,000 But this could be a very gendered issue as well. 87 00:10:26,000 --> 00:10:36,000 So because you have supervised male PhD students with children as well, did you notice any differences? 88 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:44,000 How their experiences differ from your other female PhD students with children? 89 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,000 Yeah, so as I said, it's very hard to generalise. 90 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:58,000 I can think of quite a few male PhD students who also had quite a lot to do with their children. 91 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:04,000 Because for example, at least in two cases, they did have their partners with them. 92 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:09,000 But they came from countries where their partner didn't speak any English. 93 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:23,000 So they brought over partners who were able to look after the children in the house, but not able to go to the GP, not on their own, not able even to go to the local market. 94 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:34,000 So I noticed that those male students actually had to take on quite a lot of that additional responsibility. 95 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:42,000 And I had students who had quite a few children, so I had someone who had four children, five children. 96 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:46,000 And that also makes a big difference compared to one or two. 97 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,000 That is true. 98 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:57,000 There's always just something to sort out or something to worry about or some additional activity to attend to. 99 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:08,000 But yeah, I guess even the male students, I think, with children, I noticed that they had to take on some of the responsibilities. 100 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:14,000 But yeah, I also had PhD students, female students whose partners didn't come. 101 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:18,000 So they stayed back, for example, in South Korea. 102 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:28,000 It's very much almost expected that fathers will have to stay in a very prestigious job. 103 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:40,000 And just because their wife might want to come and do a PhD, they're not ready to give up even kind of temporarily on that job. 104 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,000 And would the children come with the mum or...? 105 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,000 So the children came with the mum. 106 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:54,000 But I must say that some of my students were extremely well prepared for this challenge. 107 00:12:55,000 --> 00:13:06,000 They were even including their children, some of them involved their children in their own research. 108 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:22,000 But also just had really good strategies to get the children settled in school and understand very, very quickly how primary school life worked and made friends with other parents and all that kind of thing. 109 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:32,000 So really, everyone's different. You can be very well prepared or it can be a big shock, I suppose, as either one or the other. 110 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:50,000 But I think it's a good idea to, you know, before students come to explore the opportunities and the facilities and maybe look for like-minded parents on campus who can give advice and help you. 111 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:55,000 Because that can really make things a lot easier. 112 00:13:55,000 --> 00:14:00,000 Easier, yeah. Sharing the experiences with others who shared the same experience. 113 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:02,000 That's kind of what we're doing today. 114 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:15,000 So thinking about those female PhD students with children, what strategies or what kinds of support seem to be most effective, in your opinion? 115 00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:23,000 So I have to be honest, I'm not entirely sure what is currently available, for example, on campus. 116 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:32,000 I mean, I found for myself and for quite a few students that I would have loved to take my son to the library, for example, 117 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:42,000 because he was one of those children, he would have just sat there, wouldn't have caused any trouble, he would have just done his own coloring or whatever. 118 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:48,000 But it was often not allowed, you know, so they don't like children in the library. 119 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:55,000 So I think it would be great if there were more facilities, like there could be a little something downstairs, you know, for children. 120 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:58,000 It wouldn't take much to set that up. 121 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:04,000 And I'm sure other people have had this idea and I don't know why it has not been realized. 122 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:15,000 Because I understand not everybody would want the children running around up and down all the floors, 123 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:21,000 but certainly somewhere on the library premises, it would be great to have something. 124 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:27,000 I know that it works really well to body up with somebody. 125 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:37,000 So this is not my PhD, but when I was a young academic here, I had a friend whose child was in the same class as my son. 126 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:43,000 And then we used to take turns, she would pick both of them up and cook for them. 127 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:53,000 And then I would collect my son really late and then use those days to work late and get on with my whatever I was doing at the time. 128 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:54,000 But clever idea. 129 00:15:54,000 --> 00:16:02,000 Yeah, and then I took them usually on a Friday, sometimes Thursday and Friday, depending on whether I could make both days. 130 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:07,000 So she did more, but she wasn't working in a similar job as I was. 131 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:15,000 But then I also took them and sometimes I took them at the weekends to give her time to do something. 132 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:21,000 I know that's again a very personal strategy. 133 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:28,000 You need to just find a body or a like-minded parent on campus who would want to do that with you. 134 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:31,000 But also it's important that the children get on. 135 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,000 Exactly. 136 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:36,000 Because you can't just force your child onto anybody. 137 00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:44,000 Then the mom guilt kicks in because you go there and you found out that they have been fighting forever. 138 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,000 It's not a nice feeling. 139 00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:55,000 No, but I know this is kind of like an old person talking, but times, these are very precious times. 140 00:16:55,000 --> 00:17:06,000 So I would say if a young mom doing a PhD ever feels like today I want to prioritize my child because I feel I need to, 141 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:12,000 because he's not happy or she's not happy or something's going on, just do that. 142 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:23,000 I think it's important not to push yourself too much because sometimes your child needs you and that has to be your top priority. 143 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:24,000 That's correct. 144 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:36,000 But I guess for the work, all I can say is just plan it, just find little pockets of opportunity when you can lock yourself away and get on with something very intensively. 145 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:43,000 And often you achieve more in an intensive three hour slot than you would achieve for a whole day. 146 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:44,000 That's true. 147 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,000 Yeah. 148 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,000 Especially if you have that kind of drive and concentration. 149 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,000 That's true. 150 00:17:51,000 --> 00:18:02,000 Are there any department supports available for students who have to take care of their children as well? 151 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:07,000 So obviously we're trying really hard to accommodate people. 152 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:15,000 So for example, attending classes, we're trying to make things available in a hybrid fashion. 153 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:22,000 Also the weekly research talk is always hybrid for that reason. 154 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:24,000 So there is someone's not around. 155 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:29,000 They need to be at home with their child or they need to pick up their child early. 156 00:18:29,000 --> 00:18:31,000 They can still join in. 157 00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:38,000 We also try really hard to make adjustments with timetables so if someone can't come in. 158 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:58,000 So for example, if I know one of my students is not able to do a particular time of the day for supervision meeting, I mean, I'm luckily in a position when I can offer almost any other time because now I don't have these responsibilities or restrictions. 159 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:00,000 I can be very, very flexible. 160 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:10,000 But I think other people as well who are perhaps also academics and parents, they try to be as flexible as possible. 161 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:17,000 I mean, we also, I guess, if anyone asks, we can offer advice. 162 00:19:17,000 --> 00:19:19,000 We know how schools work. 163 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:27,000 We're very familiar with what they expect of parents, especially if they come from different countries. 164 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:32,000 How to approach a head teacher or how things work with their local curriculum. 165 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,000 I mean, some of us in the department would know. 166 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:39,000 So if anybody approaches us for advice, we could also provide that. 167 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:43,000 Is that the sort of thing you were thinking or more? 168 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,000 Well, it could be more policy wise. 169 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:53,000 But maybe we can think of when you say more flexible timetables. 170 00:19:53,000 --> 00:20:02,000 We can think about if any adjustments had to be made in deadlines or expectations from a student who have children. 171 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:10,000 So I guess, yes, I mean, asking for wanting to join, for example, a class but not being able to. 172 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000 So we would record it and make it available if possible. 173 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:20,000 And, you know, the timing of supervision meetings, for example. 174 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:23,000 I can't think of anything else. 175 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:34,000 I mean, in terms of policy, I guess, since we started working on the Athena Swan, we've been obviously revisiting this quite a bit. 176 00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,000 So I guess our policy is just to be as flexible as possible. 177 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:48,000 And if at all, you know, within our power, then make those adjustments depending on the individual, whatever they. 178 00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,000 That's very individual. 179 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,000 Yeah, because it can be very individual. 180 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,000 So you have been in academia for a long time now. 181 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:06,000 As an established academic, have your own supervisory practices evolved over time? 182 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,000 Can you reflect on it? 183 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,000 In relation to this topic in the future. 184 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,000 Yes, please. 185 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,000 Yeah, well, this is kind of a hard question. 186 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:29,000 I guess, I think, you know, it's always important to check and to make sure that someone who's got family responsibilities, that they first of all are okay. 187 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:31,000 They're feeling okay. 188 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:36,000 They're able to get on the work, the academic work. 189 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:48,000 Because like I said before, if they're struggling with something, if their child's not coping or the child's ill or they worried about something, then that is going to be the forefront of their mind. 190 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:59,000 So I think just checking, just giving advice, especially if the person wants it. 191 00:21:59,000 --> 00:22:03,000 Sometimes people obviously don't necessarily want advice. 192 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:22,000 And then, you know, just kind of being a bit more patient and only talk about the academic work when the person is ready to move to that in the supervisory meeting. 193 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:29,000 And then, you know, talk about progress, taking everything into account. 194 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,000 So maybe they will have to travel back home for Christmas. 195 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:46,000 Maybe there's something going on, which means that in the next month, you know, progress will be slower or progress will be perhaps concentrated on certain days and weeks. 196 00:22:47,000 --> 00:23:01,000 Or maybe the student needs some particular support, maybe a letter, maybe something for the school to get the children out of school early or things like that. 197 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:08,000 So I think all that comes into the discussion because you always talk holistically to the person. 198 00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:11,000 You'll never just talk about the PhD progress. 199 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:12,000 Yeah, that's true. 200 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:20,000 So you allocate some time to make sure that your student is actually OK, well-being wise. 201 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,000 Yeah. 202 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,000 And then you move on to their academic response words. 203 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000 That's wonderful to hear. 204 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,000 Thank you. 205 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,000 One last, but maybe a bit more personal questions. 206 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,000 You have raised your children while building an academic career. 207 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:38,000 And you have seen other months starting their academic careers. 208 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:48,000 What piece of advice would you give to those who are now doing their PhDs while trying to care for their babies, toddlers or young children? 209 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:55,000 Yeah, I guess I don't think I can say anything new in addition to what I've already said. 210 00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:02,000 But my top pieces of advice would be always prioritize your children. 211 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:11,000 So if in the heart of your heart, your child's not happy, then do not leave them behind and take another day too. 212 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:23,000 Just pick up your work the next day or when your child no longer has fever or no longer upset or whatever it might be. 213 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:34,000 Because I think you don't want to feel guilty and you don't want to be miserable and when you're feeling miserable and guilty, then you're not going to be able to get on with your work anyway. 214 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,000 So that would be my first. 215 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:47,000 Second, find intensive periods of time when you can devote yourself to work. 216 00:24:48,000 --> 00:25:05,000 And work on strategies that may be best for you, whether it's going to the library or going to a cafe or going to a friend's house or you're just shutting yourself in your own bedroom, whatever it might be. 217 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,000 Find something that works for you. 218 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:23,000 I would also say it's important to network and talk to others and try and learn from their experience or try to share the load with others. 219 00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:36,000 And whenever you work intensively, just try and enjoy it and devote yourself to it 110% because that way you will make progress and you will get to the other side. 220 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:41,000 So you don't need to compromise your academic work. You will get it done. 221 00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:51,000 And of course, when you're out in the park and your child happens to fall asleep in the buggy, you might then think, oh, what am I going to do about my research question? 222 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:55,000 Because your work is always at the back of your mind. 223 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,000 Not a story. 224 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:02,000 When your child is playing with you, you don't want to actively thinking about it. 225 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:15,000 But as in when during the day, when you have an opportunity or doing the washing up, sometimes the best ideas come to you or a solution or a question or some kind of an insight from your reading earlier. 226 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:26,000 So I guess it's a good idea just to write all those things down and your worries and your questions and take them to your supervisor when you can. 227 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,000 Sounds amazing. 228 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:31,000 Thank you so much for your contribution to our mini-podcast series. 229 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:36,000 And thank you all those who tuned in and listened to us. Hope you enjoyed it. 230 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,000 Thank you. Thank you. 231 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,000 Thank you.