I'm very excited to be joined today by Sammy Connell. She is from the NASUWT and she is the head of conference and events. So we are doing a series of podcasts called Beyond Warwick and I'm delighted that you've joined me today to talk about all things association and about you and about your development within your organization.

 

So welcome. Thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. Where should we go? Where should we start? Let's, let's, let's Crack on, shall we? So, if you could just introduce yourself for anyone listening today and just give us a bit of background about you and what you do. Sure, so I'm Sammy Connell. I'm Head of Events for NSWT, which is the Teachers Union.

 

I've been in the industry 18 years. Uh, yeah, this feels like a very long time. Um, and I've been working at local government for Birmingham City Council for a period, um, for about 10 years, and then I moved to the Stroke Association, all within events roles, um, looking after their scientific conferences, and now I'm with the Teachers Union.

 

Um, we're a union that represents all teachers across the UK. We have about 270, 000 members, and my team and I look after about 60 events in the calendar year, a real range of events. So So how long have you been at NASUWT? It is such a mouthful. I will get it out by the end of this. It's easier to call it the Teachers Union.

 

I've been here six years in November. Of 2024. Oh, fantastic. And if you had progression within that time of you developed a team, how's it been for you? Yeah, it's been, um, you know, when I came into the organization, you know, I was brought in to bring about change and to sort of really look at the events that we're doing and the impact that they have and our sort of wide range of events portfolio when you think about when you break down the events, we do have a big annual conference, which is, you know, over 1000 for a number of days over Easter, um, which is a democratic conference, but then we break down to party political presidencies, consultation conferences, a whole range of them.

 

Um, you know, we do festivals, award dinners. So it is a real spectrum. I think my role was to come in and have a look at the impact that they're having. You know, what's that doing for our brand awareness, but also, you know, unions thrive on activism. On their members being active. Um, you know, the union's nothing without its membership.

 

So, and events play a huge role in that. You know, we know that actually by members coming to events, it increases activism and actually it helps with networking and it supports the whole entire union, but also the teaching profession. So my role is to look at the impact that they're having and also to look at processes, you know, ways that we could improve our sustainability journey.

 

What we're doing around DDI, what we're doing around legacy and just looking at those big pictures and saying, you know, what are we doing now? Where do you want to be? And how do we get there? Amazing. I can hear how passionate you are. And obviously we've met through the events industry, but can you say what what's really inspired you about?

 

Being a part of the events industry? I think if you asked my mother she would have told you that I was always really assertive and always organising someone or something. So if it wasn't my siblings it was some sort of party that I had constructed from a very young age. And I do believe that events are in your blood.

 

I think you're in it, it's either in you or not. And I think people, some of my You know, friends and peers, you know, like you were born for the events industry. And I really think I rarely attend an event where if it's, you know, even a social event or, you know, a small gathering of friends where I'm not trying to do something can make it happen.

 

So I think events is either in your blood or not. I absolutely thrive on seeing. You know, when it's been a long period or a short lead time, but often associations are a long lead time, of me working together with a team to put something on and watching others enjoy it. That brings me huge satisfaction.

 

Well, can we talk about your primary role and how you support the industry? So, yeah. So in terms of my role, um, I'm, you know, I head up the events team at NSWT. I work a lot with my other union colleagues. There's a whole range of different unions and other education. Sort of associations to make sure that we're working for the profession for the education landscape, ensuring that our teachers and headteachers and school leaders are all supported.

 

Um, and actually that the government are being able to offer them the support that they need to deliver for children. Um, so there's that role within SWT, but also I'm, um, they tell me about, you know, you've got many hats. I do wear many hats. I maybe should have different colours for them. Um, so. I am the co chair for ABCO, which is, ABCO is the Association of British Professional Conference Organisers.

 

It's been around 30 plus years. I've been a member for nine years. I know, we've only been a member for two. Have you? So I'm delighted to be part of it now. Yeah, absolutely. It is definitely the place for, um, Association event participants. I became a member in, um, a very long time ago, 2015. Um, and I remember arriving and meeting these people and the only words I can describe it was like meeting my tribe.

 

It was like looking at different versions of myself in one room. Everybody thought similar to me, had similar views to me, or a lot like me. Um, they understood me. I think the events industry, when you're in an association, can be really lonely. You're often a specialist team in a wider organisation, and maybe the only specialism.

 

And what I've learnt is, The more you climb up that ladder, the loner it is. Because everyone expects you to have the answers, you to solve the problems, and they all come to you. And also, you know, people think that events are easy. I read a book, Events Are Easy, by Paul Abbott, and I I could not rate it enough for anyone that's thinking about picking up a book about events because he nailed it.

 

People think events are easy and it just happens when actually we know that it doesn't and it's a skilled role. So I think, you know, having being able to meet people that understood me and also having similar challenges around budgets, around, you know, the bureaucracy that you get within an association and the, the restrictions that you have, being able to converse with those people was just game changing from the moment that I joined Abco that, um, I remember sitting there, um, at an event, it was at one of the, um, awards and the chair came on.

 

And I remember thinking, I want to be the chair. And then the usual doubt creeps in of, you could never do that for me. Imposter syndrome. Imposter syndrome is huge, especially amongst women. So it was like, you could never do that for me. And I was like, well, maybe I'll build towards that. And then I became very active and then became on the, and then thankfully got voted in as chair.

 

And whilst we're talking about sort of your progression with your many hats on as well, and obviously you've been mentoring, and you've mentioned that in Abco when we've been at our sessions, and it was at the Knowledge Festival, wasn't it, in Glasgow. So, do you want to touch on that as well? Yeah, I think mentoring is just a big part of it.

 

So powerful. I think when people engage with it, um, you know, it does change lives. There's no way about it. And I've been very involved in mentoring from my very early days at working at the council. I was mentored for a program called advancing women in the workplace. It was a national program for women working for Birmingham city council, biggest authority in Europe, 54, 000 employees, 1.

 

3 million people at the time we were serving. So huge program. And I was really fortunate to And I saw the benefits of mentoring straight off. Yeah. And then I remember thinking, maybe one day someone will ask me to be a mentor. Maybe that will be a thing. Um, and it is, it's now a thing. So I think I've had a mentor throughout my whole life.

 

Like there hasn't been since I've started working events industry in one way or another, there has been a period where I've had a mentor either internally with my organization or externally, um, a whole range of professionals. And if any of them are listening, you know, that you've changed my life. You know, I thanked you all individually and, and you, you know, there's been so many things where I've gone to them and said, I don't think I can do this, or I've got this situation.

 

What would you do? And after mentoring, you know, You know that they've got the answers. It's just about helping them find them. You know, often the mentee knows what to do. Or, you know, might need to kind of bounce some ideas off you. So, recently, um, I've become a mentor of Fast Forward 15 program. Yes. Which is a program, um, for women in the industry.

 

We know that actually there are a lot of women in the industry, but a really small proportion of them are in management or in any SLT role. And is that, is this mentoring because they're facing challenges or what? Is it different things that they're discussing that you're helping them with? Yeah. So the mentoring program for fast forward 15, for an example, and there are others I've done like elevate mentoring.

 

Um, the fast forward 15 is a year program. It's a committal. There's 15 women and there are all different stages in their career. You know, from the very beginning to very old, the demographics are very different, the ages and so forth. And it's about you meeting with that mentee. You know, you get matched.

 

It's a very thorough process. And it's about me saying, I am a mentor and this is what I can offer. And a mentee being matched. And then when Once you're matched and you're through that process, you very much meet with them monthly and you set goals. They're smart. You're there to challenge them. You're there to make them accountable.

 

You're there to say, you know, come on, you can do this. And I've got a mentee at the moment, Sophie Tanner who works for Shooting Stars Children's Hospice. She's incredible. Doesn't know she's incredible. So a lot of my work is actually building her confidence, working out, you know, you know, Again, she's become, um, you know, a manager and about sort of her management skills and what that looks like and leading a team.

 

Um, in Often, which, you know, going to events sometimes can feel like going to battle because you know that you've got to produce and they're long hours and your game face has got to be on. You've got to lead a team to deliver that and the curveballs come in and you've got to manage them. So I think my role has very been about, you know, and also you.

 

Giving her examples of where I've found the most benefit and what I've done in those situations and, you know, just helping her to keep, you know, challenge her thinking as well. You know, there's this theory that I work with the five whys. If you want to do something, go for it. Ask yourself five times why.

 

Why do you want to do it? Okay, why do you want to do it? And if you get to the third and fourth and you can't find, then actually you probably shouldn't be doing it and maybe you should be doing something else. So often people come up with goals or things that they want to do because they think that's what they should do, but they need to drill down on the actually what they are, make them smart.

 

Um, and I think that's the role of the, the mentor, but I'm really enjoying being part of the cohort. I'm learning. I think often people say, oh, you know, you become a mentor. I've got time for that. You know what you're doing. Yeah. And we have an incredible cohort of mentors. I'm really privileged to be on this cohort.

 

They're incredible powerhouses. And it's, I always have that imposter syndrome, it's like, should I be here? But you know, we get over that, but we have an actual mentor for the mentors. And that's really important. So we get training, we get support, you know, we can go to them and say, actually, my mentee, you know, is dealing with this.

 

And, you know, I've advised them on this, but do you think that's the right course? And, you know, and, you know, I don't think you can mentor without having that 360 approach. You know, you've got to understand, To what degree they want to share what's happening in their personal life, because it will have an impact on their professional and how they can develop as a, as a whole holistic person.

 

So I'm really enjoying the fast forward, uh, 15 program. It is incredible. Any women out there thinking, actually, I really want to start. Next year, 2025 investing in myself, I would hugely look at, um, putting yourself forward for that. You do, you know, again with anything you get out what you put in, but the stories that you get from the women that have been through this, it's transformational camaraderie.

 

That's fantastic. But that leads us quite nicely on. Then it was just really to sort of discuss that. Discuss the biggest challenges currently facing the hospitality industry, and you may be getting some of those from your mentees, but, uh, you know, just what, what challenges are out there at the moment for organizations.

 

Yeah, I think it's really difficult. You know, we're still talking about the dreaded COVID. Yes. Because there is still the impact on that. We know that actually recruitment of, you know, Of event professionals as a whole, especially in the hospitality, but actually as a whole as an industry, they're left in their, in their droves and we know that they haven't come back and those that have come back are struggling with workload and also the demands of the attendees are so much different now, you know, we introduced virtual and now people, you know, are leaning down and have been since COVID the hybrid route, but we know that actually running a hybrid event is like running two events.

 

We're two different budgets and not everybody and two different teams to run that. And actually the resources often in associations are really, really stretched. We're using members money. They're often in house small specialist teams working with a big organization. Um, you know, in every penny, any penny counts.

 

So I think for us, what we're trying to do at NSWT is actually, you know, do we need to have every event hybrid? Because fundamentally are people tuning in? And my view is at the moment, in person is back and it's back with a bang. Venues, you must know. We're seeing it massively that that person to person contact has been so important and people are still really keen to get back together.

 

We're humans, aren't we? Like, you know, we want to be with people. And often, you know, in our industries that we're serving, our communities, when you think about a teacher's life, they actually spend very little time with adults. They spend, you know, they might have four or five lessons a day, 30 children in each.

 

You know, they spend a lot of time with children, not a lot of time with their peers. And that's often with other associations, especially when you think about the medical profession as well. They're often spending time with their patients and not with their peers. So, I think events in the association broader market is so key.

 

And I think at the moment, the biggest challenges I'm finding is,you know, people are, let's make it hybrid. And I'm saying why? Who's going to watch it? When are they going to watch it? Will they watch it all? Can we prioritize sessions over other sessions? You know, for instance, we've got a conference coming up where we're actually only streaming the live sessions in the main hall.

 

We're not doing all the breakouts. We've really focused our energy on this is the main content. These are the plenary sessions and we're going to stream those. And actually, if you want to watch the rest, come and join us in person. You know, it's about, you know, looking at those barriers, but also we're very mindful that our profession in the teaching profession, 70 percent of women, we know actually a society women tend to be the caregivers for their children or, you know, elderly parents, etc, etc.

 

And actually coming to a conference can be a restriction traveling. To X or Y can be a barrier. So we're actually prioritizing, you know, for instance, we have a women's conference and we are actually prioritizing having hybrid at that event, knowing that women will be going to, that may be today. Yeah. The audience will mainly be women actually.

 

Could we stream these sessions? Because actually if in the morning they have a childcare issue. They can actually still watch X and Y online. So I think it's about looking at, you know, what you're streaming, why you're streaming it, who's going to watch it, and also looking at the data. We use CVen as our provider, um, for all of our sort of attendee hub and our streaming and our app.

 

And actually, what I'm really keen on with any software that I use is what does the data tell you afterwards. Okay, you did a hybrid event. Great. How many people watched? How long did they watch? How long were they engaged for? Did they have an interaction? Did it feel like it did if you were in person? Um, I think the advice that somebody gave me that stuck with me straight after COVID is, if you're going to do hybrid, don't do it well or don't do it at all.

 

And I remember thinking, Okay, we either do it well, or we don't do it at all. And that's where we've sort of sat with it. And we have a conference for disabled teachers. And actually we know that actually a barrier can be travel with our disabled members, um, whichever, you know, they're going through. And actually, so we do prioritise that event.

 

So I think it's, you know, NSWT, we're making sure that we're making the choices on hybrid. You know, there's a narrative and there's a rationale about why we're doing not just because, well, everyone does hybrid after an event, you know, we'll tune loads of people in online. Um, does that happen? Well, yeah, I think, I think we're ever evolving, aren't we?

 

And I think, I think we have to move with the times and venues have to move with the times. And that sort of leads me on to sort of what, you know, your, your organization is an advocate for in the industry at government level. For example, we talked about. We've been in sessions together, haven't we? We talked about Martin's Law and different, you know, different things that are coming out within our industry.

 

So it was just really how, how do you and your organization take that on board and how are you going to then implement it across your events? Yeah, so I think one thing that our organization is brilliant at is being, you know, on the pulse. of what's happening and sometimes you can feel a little bit overwhelmed about all the different sources coming in and what it means and the legislation and x and y and what that implication means for you and one thing that we've actively got involved in is Martin's Law.

 

You know, we as NSWT sit on the steering panel with um, the ICC Wales who head it up and we're very much part of that development of supporting, you know, the narrative and also being acutely aware of what's because we'd rather, you know, help. You sort of mould the change and implement the change than you have done to us.

 

You know, we're also, yes, we're a trade union, but we also have a conference centre as well. So it also implies to us with both hats on. So it's about making sure that actually when things are coming out, that you don't ignore them and that you get on board with them. Um, and of course we spend huge amounts of energy campaigning and having advocacy for our teachers for better rights, terms and conditions, workload, pay, pensions, etc.

 

That is our core business. We know that. Folds out to our events as well. So yes, we're involved in Martin's law, but we're also, you know, In terms of what the organization expects from me, is to be very much on the pulse of what's happening. And in terms of, obviously we've touched on Martin's Law, and in terms of as venues that you're using, what, is there anything that you would give a bit of advice to in terms of what they really need to be doing today?

 

not to stand out, but almost as a given really, you know, we maybe touch on sustainability or EDI, you know, what is it that venues really need to be doing to support these organizations? I think they need to understand how different they are to any other, you know, agency, corporate, et cetera. They are very different.

 

Associations think differently. I always say, if you, laid out 20 event professionals and told me two of them work in the events industry. After having a five minute conversation with these, I'd probably be able to pick out the two. We think differently. We act differently. We have different values. We, you know, why is that?

 

I don't, it's different to pinpoint. I think it's one thing. I think from my personal, I can only speak for myself and not the entire industry. But for me, I have two small girls and I always think if I need to get out of bed and leave them And I can't do every school run and every pickup and I can't be at every single event that they have It needs to be for a good cause Because otherwise i'm not willing to give my blood sweat and tears for it.

 

So i'm always And that is why I've stuck with associations. And I guess with values aligned to me, you think about my career, uh, you know, working for local government, I worked for a Lord mayor. We worked with a charity appeal. Then I went on to work for a charity that I'd had a personal effect to my life.

 

And I felt like I wanted to add value. And I knew I could by, you know, hosting these conferences that brought stroke care professionals together to improve stroke care. And also any funds raised would go back to the charity. And I knew. That could be my role was never going to run the marathon, but actually for the charity that was going to be one day I did do a fire walk for the charity.

 

I walked on fire for them. So yeah, led by example there. But and then I guess with associations again, my husband's a teacher. I'm very passionate about the education profession. You know, The education profession is the only profession that creates other professions. We need to keep that in mind, and it's so under resourced.

 

Um, and actually I know by bringing our teachers together, ultimately to improve the way that they're working, will ultimately improve our children's lives. So I think, me as an individual, it's about values. It's about leaving my children and, and doing something for good. And if I can align those two, if I can align my work with my personal values.

 

And I think that's why I enjoy what I do so much because I can see the positive impact that I'm having in my role. Yeah. And also on your girls. I would imagine, yeah, trying to lead by example, you know, letting the girls know, you know, what was the phrase? You should marry a rich man. And no, I am the rich man.

 

You know, I don't need, you know, really independent, but it's too strong, very strong minded girls, especially this morning on the. That was painful, but you know, it's about, again, for me, I want to be a role model for them, but in terms of sort of putting what NSWT and I guess event professionals look for in venues, it is the stuff that we know about, but it's about one understanding them, find out what associations look for.

 

What to a venue can be really small fry. It becomes a massive big deal. That can be down to simple things like car parking, cloak room charges. What associations don't like is the unknown costs. Because we don't have this magic book, bucket that we can pull all these expenses off. It needs to be all open and up front.

 

Open and up front, no hidden costs. And you know, if there is a cloak room charge, tell us what it is and tell us what it would be for our tenancy. Don't make us do the work for us. Is that or is that not, you know, it's about actually giving associations because we have tight budgets. We have to be accountable.

 

We have boards that we have to get all this through. You know, there's loads of processes in our way, and that's why we have long lead times. Um, so I think it's about being up front. And, you know, even down to the smallest things of, you know, when you have a bar at your dinner, you know, not having a minimum spend on it because that goes, Oh, what about if I don't get the minimum spend?

 

Spend and or I puts pressure on you, puts pressure, and then you go, maybe we won't do the bar. And then that takes away from the event. And I think it's just about looking at the small things that to a venue is very small cost, but to an event organizer and association, the upfront cost of this is gonna cut X or this is complimentary.

 

And one thing that, a venue that I know that I'm working with recently is doing is they're saying You can have a CLO room, but guess what, we've got another event in that day. And do you wanna share the cost? And it's like, yes, I do want to share the costs, that would be great, because actually that takes the pressure off that, that budget line, but I think, you know, it's about understanding the associations, but then it's the stuff around that we really care about and we, you know, all event professionals care about, but we really do care about EDI.

 

We really, that is something that is. Again, I don't meet an association that isn't the core of what they want to do, you know, and also around the sustainability. Often associations are on their own journey, their members are asking for that, and then also around the accessibility piece, when you're thinking about associations.

 

They're often campaigning for better accessibility for their members or, or X, Y, and Z and actually making sure that venues have got that piece in. I think one thing that I'm seeing as a trend, if I was to sort of say, what would I like to see more of, is definitely around the legacy piece. You know, we know that bringing events together creates a huge legacy on its own, but that's not good enough anymore.

 

saying that it putting the numbers on it isn't good enough anymore. Those figures grey impressive, but actually what's the community impact. And one thing that we're doing at NSWT is, um, I think I've seen in the industry for a really long time, people going to a city, an organization saying, we're going to X and this is going to be our legacy piece.

 

We're going to put this on because it aligns with us. And this is what the city is going to receive from us. And let's face it, schools, third sector, non profit will take anything for free because they're so underfunded. That's the truth of it. So what we've said is actually Yes, we're coming. We're bringing a thousand people or X or 500 or whatever it is.

 

What can we do in that time? And what we're doing is asking the venues to host association and local community roundtables where we find out what the sort of communities need. Not what do they need? What is an issue in your community in this local area right now? What is that? And okay, put it all on the table.

 

We're not going to deliver it all. But let's take those ideas back, see how they align with what we're doing and our missions and any of them that find in, you know, for us it's around education. It's about, you know, we have, you know, we know that in schools, unfortunately, teachers are using food banks. We know that that's a problem.

 

We know that teachers are feeding children. We know that, Teachers within schools, there's a period poverty crisis amongst young girls in schools and teachers are supplementing that so actually that's a problem for us. Is it a problem for your community? If it is, let's bring those two together. So I really like that sort of completely flipping it on its head and saying, What do you need, not this is what we're delivering for legacy?

 

Well, that kind of leads me on to, so, and I think you might, you might have some ideas, but what's the most rewarding experience for you working in an association? But I mean, that's rewarding in itself, but is there anything else that's been particularly rewarding? I think for me, it's about being part of something that is going to make a substantial change, usually to society.

 

And you know, we're all in this world together. We've only got one planet. People, you know, generally want to be kind to one another. And I think what I noticed about the, um, association industry, people really enjoy what they're doing and they're really proud of it. And they really want to showcase that.

 

And often people in the association industry are not used to being front and centre and actually want to sit back. And, Um, but actually we know that the association is huge and the benefits that it has, the economical, but also the social, we know that actually the communities benefit. Um, and I think for me, I'm really proud to be, um, part of the association and I don't see myself moving from it.

 

I just see myself in this industry that is thriving, you know, ABCO membership is soaring through the roof. You know, we can't get through our, um, accreditation quick enough. It's great. It's great. We know that we want to attract more students. And what we've been doing is we've been hosting, um, round tables with students in cities and bringing those universities together.

 

And a lot of those students on the courses don't know about associations. I didn't. I didn't know when, you know, I was studying my MA that the association thing, you all get when you're studying those courses rightly or wrongly, but you very much get led down the big events. The Olympics, what's happening on the, you know, those big events are there for you to see, which are great.

 

But actually the association industry is huge. That, you know, we know that the growth in it is continuing to sort of hit through the roof. And I just think it's about, well, What can we do as an industry to make it more attractive? How can we engage the students? So for an example of we held an ICC Birmingham roundtable in May of 2024, and we brought all the students together from all of the different universities across the West Midlands.

 

So it included Birmingham, Coventry, even down to Gloucester and Derby, and really spread out all of the universities that have courses on event management. And hospitality, of course, because they're too often interlinked. We brought them into a room together, we showcased them what the industry is, we did some practical tools with them, we told them what employers are looking for, tips, we got them talking.

 

From that event alone, I think at least four or five of them have either got placements or job offers or are now looking to be in the events industry. And where before they didn't even know about it. That's amazing. What's next for Sammy then? What's next for you? You've got, I mean, you've done so much. So, you know, already, but what, what else do you see for you?

 

Yeah, that's a really interesting question. I think if you ask my husband, he'd ask me to slow down, but I don't think I am. I think people often ask me how I fit it all in. And I don't think I'm very, you know, extra special or anything compared to anyone else in the industry. I think what I do is I prioritize things.

 

I am really passionate and I am really enthusiastic, but I prioritize things that mean the most to me. So when the role. of executive come upon Abco. I knew I had to say goodbye to some of the volunteering opportunities because there's only so many hours in the day. I am very busy. I do want a social life.

 

I do want to spend time with my family. So I think it's about saying, okay, I'm going to do X. And that means that other things might have to take a back burner. So those are the roles that have on being, you know, on PTAs and governors and supporting charities that I said, actually, I've done that for a little while now.

 

I'm going to stop doing that. Not forever, but actually, if I'm going to do this role, I think with me, um, I'm often all or nothing. So I'm all in it, full throttle. And then I'm like, okay, I'm done now. And then I step away and sort of say, now let someone else take over. So I think for me, Abco being the co chair for the next two years will be really exciting.

 

I'm co chair with Pauline Beattie, who works at Conference Care. We're really enjoying working together, um, completely different ways from an agency and from an in house. And it's just been a real blast.I hope she's listening to this. Or maybe she's not. We'll make sure, she'll be cringing. She'll be absolutely dying inside.

 

She'll be like, Sammy, no! Um, I think work can be poor. And the committee and all of the exec and everyone that makes Abco work. And the members. I think one thing that I really want for Abco is it to To be, you know, is a membership organization led by members for members. I really want to grow the membership with in house PCOs.

 

I think often, you know, they're not even called sometimes event professionals. They've often got other titles or they've got three hats on and organizing their annual conference is one of them. And I think it's about bringing those people on board and saying in those charity union, non for profit association, this is where you belong.

 

And, you know, our retain rate is huge on Abco because once you're in, You're in. It's not a cost. I must say. It's not. But just the benefits. It's a really small fee each year. We haven't raised our prices in forever, I think Heather tells me. Which is good. We don't want to raise our fees. We want to involve people.

 

Because we know that the benefits will come. So I think for me, it's about really getting into the benefits. You know, ABCO have been in the role for a couple of months now, really understanding the role. Um, and what I will say is hats off to the previous chairs. I didn't quite realise how much was involved.

 

I kind of did, but there is quite a bit of a demand on keeping on top of everything. And Heather does a superb job. But the previous chairs, yeah, they definitely downplayed how much work's involved. Just in terms of sort of, you know, you don't want to drop the ball. And so much work has been done to keep elevating.

 

Abco and I want to continue that. So I think Abco is going to be a big part of my, my life. Um, for the next few years, absolutely. Until they kick me off and then I'll just hang around for a bit. Mentoring will forever be in my blood. I had a brilliant mentor, Callie Willoughby Ward, who looks, um, she very much around marketing and public speaking.

 

And she. I don't think I'd be doing this today if it wasn't for Kelly because I just had that huge imposter syndrome of what have I got to say that will be of any value. Well I remember you saying on a previous talk how you put, you're constantly stepping outside your comfort zone all of the time. Yeah.

 

And it doesn't matter how uncomfortable you're, you're still there. You're still going for it, and probably perhaps wouldn't have done that before. Never. I think event professionals are so used to putting the speaker on stage and setting back and with their clipboard going, look how great everything looks and not being in the limelight.

 

And I think it's difficult for us to put ourselves forward. I think having a mentor on the Elevate program like Kelly transformed how I, how I even see myself and put myself forward. I had some also went on a really awesome course with Nick Alston about finding your voice. And he really made me challenge how, and he's been at various shows and, you know, this might be hot off the press, but he may or may not be at an Abco event soon.

 

It's an exclusive. It's an exclusive. I love it. It depends when this goes out. It might be like that. But yeah, he's definitely down for an Abco event soon. And he very much looks at finding your voice and also finding your comfort place. I think before I tried to be other people. I saw other people and I tried to mimic them and that felt really uncomfortable and it wasn't me and I didn't come across authentic.

 

I didn't like watching the recordings back. I didn't like who I was there. I think what he taught me was actually the most beautiful thing about a fall is to be yourself. And if you fall over your words, that's okay because nobody speaks in perfect English all of the time. Where people buy into people People buy into you, isn't it?

 

It's how you are. Yeah, and people are often endearing, and people really, nobody sits in the audience saying, I really want that person to do really badly. Hopefully no one's listened to this podcast going, I really hope this is a complete and utter failure. No one does that as humans. No, absolutely. We're not wired like that.

 

Well, the good people anyway. So I think Nick taught me that actually finding your voice. And also he taught me, say yes and worry later. And this is exactly the mantra that I'm having. Say yes to opportunities and worry later. I've said yes to international speaking opportunities. I've said yes to big shows.

 

And I will say yes because I know fundamentally I can do it. And I will worry about it later. And Kali has given me the tools to manage those worries. And to manage that imposter syndrome and the nerves. Because often nerves are just nervous energy. It's excitement. It's excitement. Like, you're excited.

 

You're excited. I want to be here. I'm really happy to come and chat to you. I want to talk to you about the things that I think, um, other people may, you know, want to hear about. But I think, you know, it's about really investing in yourself. I think I'm going to spend the next couple of years really continuing my, my CP journey with myself.

 

I spent so long investing in others, you know, whether that was the team I was leading, whether that was the people I was mentoring, whether that was, you know, the organization or my children or my friends and giving advice. And I actually thought I'm going to spend a couple of years investing in myself because I feel like there's potential there that I'm just holding back on.

 

And what am I actually scared of? Like, I'm scared of failure. That's what we're all scared of, right? We're all scared of failure. Yeah, we're all scared of it, right? But actually, the events industry is a really inclusive place, and if you do fail, there'll be ten people there to pick you up. Give you a big hug.

 

Yeah, we've all had those moments, and you're like, that was a car crash. And it's like, you know what? You were brilliant. It was fine. Let's, you know, let's hug it through. It's fine. So I think, I'm going to continue the next few years with Abco, with mentoring, with developing myself, and you know, who knows what will happen.

 

I think I definitely am firmly in the association industry. Absolutely. But I think for me, it's quite exciting. I'm so glad that I've met you. I'm going to love watching your journey. I'm going to learn from you. And I'm, you know, the more and more Abco events I come to, I'll probably find out some more things about myself as well, which will be fantastic.

 

So that leads me on then to - I think it's going to be quite hard to pick this out, but in terms of what your proudest moment is, or something that you've achieved that you're really proud of. Oh gosh, so my children won't listen to this, so it'll be fine. And I very much doubt my husband will get this far into it.

 

So, he might have listened to the few bits at the beginning. Um, so apart from the children, in my professional setting, I think it's about really leading by example, I think I'm really proud of, I kept telling people, you know, say yes, do it, go and, you know, go up into a networking room and talk to people, you know, invite someone for that virtual coffee, feel awkward, because when you feel awkward and nervous, actually that's when the best bit of growth is happening, and I think That is what I'm most proud of.

 

Um, yes, I'm, you know, fairly young in my sort of career in terms of, you know, we'll work until we're 100 now, aren't we? But you know, I've got a long sort of career ahead of me. And I think actually, I'm really proud of my growth, especially in the last five years. NSWT have been a great ambassador. Um, they really have.

 

I've, you know, I've put my ideas over, I've got colleagues there that, you know, wouldn't be where I am today because I said, letting you fly on, they are, they, you know, as long as my ideas have got, you know, the evidence and there's a business case and what the outcomes are going to be. And, you know, and actually there's proof and we do many trials and we say, actually try this and, you know, look what we've got if we scale it up.

 

And I think I'm really fortunate that I am in an organization that continues to see the growth because they know that. You know, we all know people are your biggest asset in any organization. And if you've got individuals, leaders, people that are heads in up teams that have that enthusiasm and also, you know, want the organization to grow and to thrive, then ultimately they want that for me and they want that for the organization.

 

So I think That's my proudest moment of how much I've pushed myself out of my comfort zone. I think if you would have told me three, four years ago that I was going to be chair of Abco and a fast forward mentor, a sustainability champion, winning these awards for the myself as individuals and for the team and speaking internationally, I would have laughed and probably fell off my chair.

 

It's amazing. Well, that is hats off to you.so much for joining me. This has been fantastic. I've loved every minute of it. And it was a new thing for us both. Yes. We're both newbies doing our podcast together. We might be like monthly additions now. I imagine. No, thank you for having me. And also, thank you to, you know, organizations like yourself, companies like yourself, that get associations, that understand how we work.

 

You know, Warwick is a great example. Incredible place to be. You absolutely nail all of the, you know, the requirements are and you make the events so seamless for us. But also I'm really, you know, glad to be aligned with yourself and the organization because actually you have the same values that we have.

 

Sustainability, EDI, accessibility, all those things that we really care about, you care about too. And that makes our job a lot easier. So thank you for inviting me. You're very, very welcome. Thank you.